eBay

ricarmic · ‎11-26-2022

Last night wooo hooo $499 US sale, to a repeat Canadian customer all looks good until....

I look at the payments and once again it's on hold till Jan 4th.

So I'm 2 for 2 now for large sales automagically held.

I've not heard much from other active established sellers here that are getting these all the time from the other thread I opened, so something must be triggering the BOTs to put holds on my large sales despite the fact I'm a long established seller with decent ongoing sales quantity.

I'm a problem solving kinda guy so I'm wondering what the algorithm is that the BOTs are using to determine when a hold is placed on me.

Here are things I know have coincidentally happened around the time of the holds:

-within a day or so before the holds I've received INR(s). For the first hold I spoke about in an earlier thread I had 3 of them from a Canadian buyer the dayish before the hold. For last nights hold I had an INR case opened in the US on Thursday, the .COM sale was early this (Saturday) morning. Buyer is from Canada though.

-Overall I've received 6 INRs within the last month, this is a first ever for me (this many in this short a time), they all have stories behind them which I won't bother folks here with, but from the bots perspective that's a lot of INRs relative to my usual "volume". As a note though, despite the quantity, I'm only over average in one category across all options on .COM and .CA, its the .CA domestic one, I'm at 0.45% against the average of 0.35% Not sure if this is enough to put extra focus in the algorithm on Canadian sales, both holds are Canadian buyers. The 3 Canadian INRs (same buyer) were all I have but raised the % over average in the domestic .CA category.

-the sale amounts of the held sales are very "high" compared to my average item sale price. I am selling a LOT of $10 to $15 items these days, which is no surprise given the current economic status. The average item price is likely in the $20-$25 per item range. The two held items were 20 to 25 times the "average" item price, so this also might be something that triggers the automagic BOT hold.

I would be interested to know of others who've been regularly selling that have had holds and any "circumstances" around that time that might have triggered them.

This is going to be another eternally elusive task same as the "search algorithm" that will also never be understood, but it would be good to see if there are any consitent "circumstances" that will cause them.

I'm spending the time doing this because whilst my cash flow model will handle this 30 day hold situation, I'm sure from what I've seen over time here on the boards, not everone else's will so if we have a general idea what things can cause it it might help us in the long term...

mrdutch1001 · ‎11-26-2022

I don't even sell regularly and I still don't have payments with held...I also no longer list anything of value on eBay...way too many INR,INAD, buyers being refunded willy nilly,etc. being reported over the past year.. and not just here on eBay, but on other selling sites as well...

byto253 · ‎11-26-2022

It's a real headscratcher and makes no sense. Something in the bot world does seem to have put some kind of flag on your payments. No issues with holds here.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-26-2022

@ricarmic wrote:
Last night wooo hooo $499 US sale, to a repeat Canadian customer all looks good until....
I look at the payments and once again it's on hold till Jan 4th.
So I'm 2 for 2 now for large sales automagically held.
I've not heard much from other active established sellers here that are getting these all the time from the other thread I opened, so something must be triggering the BOTs to put holds on my large sales despite the fact I'm a long established seller with decent ongoing sales quantity.
I'm a problem solving kinda guy so I'm wondering what the algorithm is that the BOTs are using to determine when a hold is placed on me.
Here are things I know have coincidentally happened around the time of the holds:
-within a day or so before the holds I've received INR(s). For the first hold I spoke about in an earlier thread I had 3 of them from a Canadian buyer the dayish before the hold. For last nights hold I had an INR case opened in the US on Thursday, the .COM sale was early this (Saturday) morning. Buyer is from Canada though.
-Overall I've received 6 INRs within the last month, this is a first ever for me (this many in this short a time), they all have stories behind them which I won't bother folks here with, but from the bots perspective that's a lot of INRs relative to my usual "volume". As a note though, despite the quantity, I'm only over average in one category across all options on .COM and .CA, its the .CA domestic one, I'm at 0.45% against the average of 0.35% Not sure if this is enough to put extra focus in the algorithm on Canadian sales, both holds are Canadian buyers. The 3 Canadian INRs (same buyer) were all I have but raised the % over average in the domestic .CA category.
-the sale amounts of the held sales are very "high" compared to my average item sale price. I am selling a LOT of $10 to $15 items these days, which is no surprise given the current economic status. The average item price is likely in the $20-$25 per item range. The two held items were 20 to 25 times the "average" item price, so this also might be something that triggers the automagic BOT hold.
I would be interested to know of others who've been regularly selling that have had holds and any "circumstances" around that time that might have triggered them.
This is going to be another eternally elusive task same as the "search algorithm" that will also never be understood, but it would be good to see if there are any consitent "circumstances" that will cause them.
I'm spending the time doing this because whilst my cash flow model will handle this 30 day hold situation, I'm sure from what I've seen over time here on the boards, not everone else's will so if we have a general idea what things can cause it it might help us in the long term...

It's bad enough having funds held. Even worse when you can't get an explanation or even try to defend yourself during these shenanegans. It becomes a situation of these bots are judge and jury and as a seller with an excellent reputation not much you can do. So definitely understand your frustration. As you say, some sellers this may not be a problem. Others it could be a major problem for if they depend on these funds for life.

-Lotz

brettjet38 · ‎11-27-2022

Here is my take on this...

When and as we were all "hearded" into "Managed Payments" last year...

Did any of you @ricarmic @lotzofuniquegoodies @byto253 @mrdutch1001 use your Social Insurance Number to "Register" ? (Yes, we all know you do not have to use it).

If you did not, what did you use?

As for myself, I did...

ricarmic · ‎11-27-2022

I used Drivers license and I used it again a month or so ago when I had the kerfluffle around my full name vs name on bank account. All my ID has my full name of course, my bank account does not, and ebay until then matched what was on the bank account.

I am still so very surprised that my ebay now FULL name does NOT match the shorter normal name on the bank account, I thought it was a given that both the ebay name and bank name had to be exactly the same. Apparently they've fixed that now somehow because I've gotten two weekly payments with that discrepancy with no problems (so far!).

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-27-2022

@brettjet38 wrote:
Here is my take on this...
When and as we were all "hearded" into "Managed Payments" last year...
Did any of you @ricarmic @lotzofuniquegoodies @byto253 @mrdutch1001 use your Social Insurance Number to "Register" ? (Yes, we all know you do not have to use it).
If you did not, what did you use?
As for myself, I did...

I will prefer to use the word "dumped" into MP. It has never been "as advetised or promoted. I provided a govenment ID #. At the time I don't believe it asked for photo. But this was ages ago so everything is a bit fuzzy. I was not sent 2 test transactions like how it happened with PayPal and for other eBay users. I avoided sending my SIN because I am very careful handing that out routinely. There was no we got your application. I do remember double/triple checking to make sure all i's were dotted and t's crossed before hitting accept. Then praying it would work. I then waited a few days and magically I was suddenly enrolled so I was able breathe again. If you ask 10 different users the procedure could have been different for every one of them because things changed on the hour. Just like the request that a SIN was required depended on the agent you spoke to or the form you got to apply with.

Now if there was a way to check to see what is actually on file for one's account that would be awesome but don't get your hopes up. It would be like having access ALL the occurances that have happened during your time on eBay. Whether they were truth or fiction. Like when you were marked as absent but weren't. Welcome to the new world of virtual file folders where things go to hide to be held against you at a later time.

-Lotz

dinomitesales · ‎11-27-2022

If you want another data point, when I signed up for Managed Payments I did provide my SIN (because YOLO).

I've never experienced any holds on payments, nor have I ever been asked for a Driver's License or any other form of ID verification.

mrdutch1001 · ‎11-27-2022

did not use Social Ins #= used passport ...

kawartha-ephemera · ‎11-27-2022

Drivers license. Did not even upload a copy, just provided them with the number.

brettjet38 · ‎11-27-2022

...nor was I, no holds, no issues. I suspect anyone who signed up right and used their SIN will be "omitted" by the "Bots" unless something really out of the ordinary occurs on their account.

Every account will have boxes and the higher-up verification method originally used will dictate your 'Social Score" if you will...

It is very hard to ask for anything higher up the "Ticked Boxes" list more than a SIN as "proof of identity"

kawartha-ephemera · ‎11-27-2022

Anything is possible I guess but I have serious doubts that providing a SIN would influence holds. SINs do identify us of course but for business they're mostly required for reporting financial activities to Government. I struggle to understand how having a SIN rather than say a passport or drivers license on record would help Payments better assess their own, or a buyer's risk on a particular transaction. Processes like credit checks and past history checks would seem better suited to the purpose. When we agreed to the Payments TOS did we subject ourselves to credit checks? I never read the thing so I've no clue on that.
Here's something else to consider, there are 2 parties involved in every transaction, for all we know the buyer returns history and method of payment could also influence risk somehow, ie: history of charge backs.

byto253 · ‎11-27-2022

Nope. Not legal to ask for it in Canada either. That was an error on eBay's part just copying what they did in the US, and that requirement was removed.

kawartha-ephemera · ‎11-27-2022

As a followup to my earlier comment about providing only my drivers license I will say I've not experienced any holds other than a very early on hold and request to verify my identity using said licence or passport.
Due to medical issues I've been sidelined for the most part since April / May so my sales have cratered severely since, i doubt there were any transactions that broke a $100. However earlier this year and throughout most of 2021 I can recall multiple larger transactions that far, far exceeded my average sale amount without triggering any holds.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-28-2022

@kawartha-ephemera wrote:
As a followup to my earlier comment about providing only my drivers license I will say I've not experienced any holds other than a very early on hold and request to verify my identity using said licence or passport.
Due to medical issues I've been sidelined for the most part since April / May so my sales have cratered severely since, i doubt there were any transactions that broke a $100. However earlier this year and throughout most of 2021 I can recall multiple larger transactions that far, far exceeded my average sale amount without triggering any holds.

Would be interesting to know if eBay ever holds funds from buyers perspective funds if the buyer is a little bit ummmm "hinky" or has a history of being flaking with purchases?

-Lotz

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-29-2022

@ricarmic

By chance did you happen to receive any info from eBay as per attached discussion post for a US seller regarding holds? Possibly the new frustrating random normal?

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Payments/EBAY-up-to-their-old-tricks-again/m-p/33387112#M167813

-Lotz

ricarmic · ‎11-29-2022

@lotzofuniquegoodies My hold is different, I received no notification of any kind, the only way to notice is to look at payouts and that's where the "on hold" total is with the item(s) attached to it.

I remain of the belief that it is my bad luck regarding timing with the INRs happening coincidentally close to the next big sale.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-29-2022

@ricarmic wrote:
@lotzofuniquegoodies My hold is different, I received no notification of any kind, the only way to notice is to look at payouts and that's where the "on hold" total is with the item(s) attached to it.
I remain of the belief that it is my bad luck regarding timing with the INRs happening coincidentally close to the next big sale.

@ricarmic

When it comes to willy nilly holds on sellers funds a reason should be included for transparency. Does your payment page give you a tentative release date for holds?

I've seen more mentions of holds on the US side as of late. First time I saw the reasoning attached.

-Lotz

ricarmic · ‎11-29-2022

Yes it shows the date, it also if one drives down says they're doing it to:

"Your funds are on hold until Dec 27 while we confirm that the buyer does not have an issue with the order after they receive it."

Which to my mind is hokey pokey if it is attached to the INRs. I don't have ANY INADs which presumably would be what would cause this.

Both the holds said the same thing.

The original date of the latest one was January 4, it got moved to December 27 when I shipped and added the tracking.

Last time the hold was released 3 days after the item showed in tracking as delivered, which again seems odd that they're only giving the buyer 3 days, however for most stuff this proabably makes sense....

pjcdn2005 · ‎11-29-2022

I have to agree that the holds are likely a result of the inr's. eBay wants to limit their financial liablility because they know most stamp sellers tend to sell and run! (sarcastic emjoi lol)

Seriously, as you said they must have some sort of algorithm that decides on a hold when they perceive any risk. They obviously don't take into account the user's long time history.