Is eBay the paradise of scammers?

[Anonymous]

That's a legitimate question to ask.

I'm honestly and accurately describing my eBay experience here so it serves other peoples, knowing it will probably be hided or buried by the moderators. 

Here's what I think and please take my testimony also as a warning.

Hopefully you are not reading this too late,  AFTER been scammed, or you are not an helpless victim of this site in search of answers. In this case, I really feel sorry for you.

Clearly, if you are a seller, especially inexperienced one, such me, you will come across scammers, abusers and you will lose money.

And this is fine with eBay because SELLERS are held 100% responsible by the Money-back guarantee policy.

Try this, go in a store, check an item you like, examine it, buy, use it. Then, for whatever reason, return it back.

If the store policy say the only condition they will take it back it's because it is red, yellow, or blue, then everyone will return the item claiming it is red, yellow, or blue, of course.

They will take it back, check it out, see if it is red, yellow, or blue and decide to refund or not. That's the typical way it works in real life and nobody has to read all small characters or the store policy because that's how it goes. It's called trust. 

If you don't know the definition of trust, please take a moment to check it out.

eBay has a Money-back policy backing buyers that can be easily abused by unscrupulous buyers, and if you were aware of the risks before, you wouldn't had, obviously, never used the site to sell your items.

Unfortunately, it's always newbies, like me (and most likely you), that gets trapped. And there is no chance at all that eBay will make this harder to newbies to fell for it. A simple and explicite warning before you engage in selling your things. Instead of the usual bunch of links disguised in usual boring legal stuff no one ever read.

Knowing the risks, many will not agree to sell on eBay after knowing what they should had known. 

After a misadventure of that nature, and seeking for answers, and wondering what are my options, I found an endless amounts of seller horror stories all over the place. Reddit, Quora, Youtube, Facebook, Mastodon, Discord, Google, name it, and even people have set up personal sites to join the cabal. It's impossible to read everything and you will find similar situations describing yours within minutes. 

As a result, I lost complete trust in eBay. It's now nothing less than corporatism scamming for me. From ridiculous listing fees insertion, final fees, and support, you feel being completely scammed. I immediately realised after the first sell, if they have a chances to take an additional dime from you, they will. 

As a result, you will lost complete trust in eBay too, and most likely leave, as any normal person would react.

You will feel so bad for not have taking the time to read annoying things. But again, it is the human nature in you that makes you trust people naturally.

Let's be very clear, (from what I have read and experienced after my 3rd sell only), rather sooner than later,

-you WILL lose money on ebay
-you WILL be scammed and abused in one way or another

Even if,
-YOU ALWAYS CLEARLY STATES YOUR SELLING TERMS
-YOU HAVE TONS OF PICTURES, VIDEOS and PROOFS
-YOU HAVE A PERFECT SCORE IN 20 YEARS
-YOU HAVE AN IRREPROACHABLE EBAY REPUTATION
-YOU HAVE BOUGHT OVER $50k OF GOODS ON EBAY

EVEN IF,

YOU SOLD TO AN OBVIOUS SCAMMER, LIAR WITH A FRESH BRAND NEW EBAY ACCOUNT...

...you will lose!

And this is why, I have no doubt, eBay is the paradise of scammers.

In a new YouTube blockbuster near you soon.

Bonus:

(they let an old thread run for 3 years, then, as soon someone post a follow up, and reactivates the thread and negative eBay reviews starts pouring in that thread, they suddenly close the thread, claiming that's an old thread)

[marnotom!]

Did you offer the buyer the opportunity to return the item for a refund so that you could resell it?  That's how it works on eBay.

[Anonymous]

I don't know its condition, the buyer don't want to provide any infos on its condition. He just say it's not working seeking a refund. I'm totally fine with the refund, the return and everything, why not providing info or a photo.

I would gladly resell it if I knew it condition, I have an insurance on it. But I'm left in the dark. It's an indestructible Military grade built genuine scanner worth $1700, in a new like condition, in it's original manufacturer packages, etc. sold for a third of it's value. 

If it's in the same condition he got it, even dammaged in the shipping, I have options. If he broke it somehow, that another story. But eBay don't even step in asking the actual condition of the item, that puzzles me. That's beyond comprehension. They asked to work something out with the guy, the guy don't want to provide anything. I don't know how this is called, but I called it scam! I even called him trying to help him. He never took my call and hang up.

My belief is the guy had a trouble with a machine but didn't want to buy a new one but needed this tool to perform a troubleshooting. He had no intention of keeping it from the very starts, he made a brand new account to buy it, and immediately filed for a return knowing he can use it for few days. 

[marnotom!]

Trust works both ways.  

The buyer may not have the best of intentions in mind, but it's not your place as a seller to second-guess them and act as judge and jury.  That feedback war you got into with the buyer is going to really hurt your future on eBay.

Are you familiar with eBay's Condition of Returned Items policy?

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763

As an aside, we board regulars generally don't recommend that first-time sellers start off by selling high-value items.

[Anonymous]

I will never have the chance to put in practice your advices, as you said, this is way is more than I can handle.

I like to be able to manage the risks myself and not engaging blindly in risky situations where the rules can be abused by anyone.

Just imagine if the Justice system in Canada was working that way. Imagine if the victims were held responsible by default, regardless the proofs they have, regardless anything in fact.

Plus, if I was alone in this situation, that's a very different call.

But seriously, eBay provides, in the best way possible, everything normal people hates in terms of online shopping for sellers. It is well disguised and as soon you get dragged into this, that's an awful spectacle.

3 days before, I bought a new computer for editing my videos on my channel. I have more bookmarks on it now about eBay and the negative reviews in this new computer than my 3 other computers combine about anythings, that includes porn.

I'm generally careful, and that's so infuriating. How can I (we) have missed all this if this is not a well tweaked form of scam? It's a policy until it is enforced like a scam and the end result would be considered a scam by anyone roaming outside eBay.

Trust. This explains why Amazon is so popular. I guess. 

[marnotom!]

If you like having full control over your sales, as a seller you're not going to like Amazon any more than eBay.

[Anonymous]

Not going to sell online, I was just judging the general appreciation of Amazon vs eBay.

I bought many things from Amazon and I have to admit, I understand the people's addiction. Shipping is incredibly hard to beat. Will probably never be topped by any competitors.

Never had issues, so I can't judge beyond buying things and their shipping services.

The transaction process, and the shipping fees are probably their best features, while being sometimes sketchy on eBay, from my experiences. A month+ versus  10 days max. in most cases is appreciable. 

Hence, eBay's money-back guarantee policy to damage controlling the effects of a poorer  shipping process than Amazon.

But, all this at the expense of the sellers. They even make incomes on your bad situation resulting of their own policy. Again, in general terms, if this is not a cleverly disguised form of scam... I don't know how to calls this.   

[marnotom!]

eBay and Amazon have quite different selling models.  If you buy something from eBay, most of the time it's in the seller's possession and the seller ships it out from their location.  It may go through a rather complex forwarding process to reach you if you're purchasing from a seller located in the United States or other location outside of Canada.  And, of course, it has to go through customs.

If you're buying from an Amazon seller who has chosen to have Amazon warehouse their goods, that alone speeds up the shipping time considerably.  But keep in mind that not all US sellers choose to have Amazon handle shipping their items to Canada.  I've found a lot of really good stuff on Amazon.com that is not available to Canadians either on that site or the Canadian Amazon site.  The stuff you buy on Amazon with the fast shipping you admire is likely in a Canadian Amazon warehouse awaiting your purchase.

[Anonymous]

I don't know which model is best, but if you use a site, such eBay to sell your things, and eBay makes incomes, as Canadians, we know they are legally tied implicitely to provided a minimum form of security for both side. You can't legally say you are on your own using our services. In Canada, consumer protection, that's how it goes, you don't have to read all the small characters. You are protected by default to receive a minimal form of services, safety, privacy, etc.

if you can't even know the actual condition of the litigious item you've sold from the guy who bought it, how your words will count after you receives it back - in who knows what condition.

If the buyer shipped it exactly as he received it, but don't want to provide actual photo of it's condition prior to shipping it, how eBay will judge anything seriously.

That's pure willful blindness from eBay. Look at it the way you want, the conclusion remains the same.

That's basic common sense exposing eBay pure non-sense and scammish policy.

[reallynicestamps]

Sellers are allowed to have a No Returns policy, but sellers cannot have a No Refunds policy.

Even a seller with a No Returns policy can demand the return of the disputed item before refunding.

The only question is who pays for the return shipping.

• It is possible to buy USPS shipping labels through Shippo. You do need a Solutions for Small Business number for that and those are free from Canada Post.
• https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/small-business.page?

EBay like most retailers (although eBay is not a retailer, unlike Amazon) has a system for Disputes and Claims.

No part of that system is demands for pictures, etc.  Nor " a nasty threatening email as we hadn t had a moment to meet his demands. Will harass you & threaten to close acct."

All the buyer has to do is open a Claim-- something scammers are unwilling to do, by the way, since it puts them on eBay's radar.

Then the seller can refund without return.

Request the return and refund on arrival. *

If the seller refuses to cooperate, eBay will refund the buyer and come after the seller for their money.

Since your buyer (I assume we are looking at the Genie TECH PRO LINK Diagnostic Tool ) could leave feedback,  it seems they did not open a Claim at all.

However, sellers should be aware that in addition to the eBay Money Back Guarantee, buyers are also covered by Paypal Buyer Protection and by the chargeback policy of their credit card, if they used either of those to process their payment.

*Usually but not always the seller pays for the return.

[Anonymous]

Sincerly thanks, I knew all this from reading it too late yesterday. I recognized this pre-formated eBay informations.

The reality from my perpective, and my conclusion from the others stories I'v read; it seems that to support the legitimacy of eBay's policy, for eBay, the sellers is at fault and the buyer have automatically gained the benefit of the doutb without having to provide any evidences.

Is because this attitude serves well eBay? 

This is typical behavior from a company knowing perfectly well what is going on all over the place with this policy, about all the negative reviews, and so on. I'm aware, they are the first to know.

Here's the facts regarding my case. Instead of pasting false claims and using them as facts, here's the deal.

eBay have all the exchanges between me in him, and from the first moment I got the return notification. My 1st courteous message was to asked him 5 very basic questions.

(1. photo or 2. video, a 3. serial number or a 4. machine model of the equipement he plugged it in to, in order to check if the equipement is compatible with this scanner, 5. if the item was damaged during shipping).

This might seems stupid to him and a very tediuos task for a very busy person who just bought an expensive tool and maybe seeking help.

Am I being too wild here?

Seems pretty standard like approach to me. Since I have a deadline imposed, I don't want to lose too much time either. Just normal conduct to me again.

I try to called him after 18hrs later in the early afternoon without having the chance to talk to him.

Beside the fact he had a brand new account and no buying history, the fact they hang up raised even more doubt. But eh!

Nearly 24hrs later, I asked again (same details, photos, etc).  After I realised he ghosted me, I told him more directly that I want him to tell me the condition on the item. That's all.

Only then he replied immediately, insulting me and lying I'm harassing him with repeated stupid demands. First he said I asked for 10, then, it was 20, and ultimately it was 3000 demands. Which he had to retract himself later. These documented lies and unusual actions didn't influence eBay. 

So, we exchanged 6 or 7 messages, and no threats at all.  That is his claims, no written evidences of treats anywhere. Plus, in all his subsequent messages, and my replied, I asked again, he had the chance to tell me if the item is damaged. But was more incline to insulting me than providing simple information.  He always avoided to provide anything regarding this tool. The only thing I know, he said he tried on 2 different machines, and it doesnt work.

I have built a 35 years careers on aerial equipment troubleshooting handling peoples claiming it doesn't works. That's my field of my expertise. It may seems a boastful remark, I'm very sorry for it, but looking back on my career as service technician in this field for Caterpillar, Genie, JLG and Deutz dealers I'm allowing myself to be realistic here.

This guy is specialised in truck and car repair. This is a genuine tool specifically made ONLY for troubleshooting Genie aerial equipment and only compatible with 2017 equipment models and above (hence for the serial numbers request), as stated in the manufacturer documentation provided in my listing.

Also, this is only for troubleshooting the machine side (hydraulics, electronics, calibrations and updates) and can't troubleshoot engines problems. There is certainly a certain degree of complexity in using this tool. That's for sure and I was available for getting him started with, as I did with my previous sales. Not sure how I look to you but I'm not after the money.

He claimed the serial number would reveal private information, and that is a complete indication that this guy is unreliable again. That's something anyone can check on Genie website to access the free online spare parts catalog. You type the serial number, and you get basic info, such the model, and the year of the equipment. Nothing private. The same way as typing a car or truck VIN code, don't reveal any private info.

https://partsbook.terex.com/awp/catalog/app?forcerestart=true&language=en&customstart=1&s_knoten_top...

But let's get back at eBay and leaving this guy alone.

So he bought the things and was charged by eBay more than he thought, twice the amount stated in my listing for shipping accross Canada. I told him he was charged the rated eBay fees, determined by eBay.

Anyway, he paid, and said he wants it very fast (expedited).

He got it the 16th of this month according to the tracking, and the same day he wanted to returned it.

That's completely fine, but can I know as a seller what is the condition of the it, why be so secret and mad about it?

I really don't care if the policy say it is not written anywhere to provide anything. Basic common sense doesn't get discarted by any policy in any text of law. And that is not irrelevent above all.

Where are the arguments saying it is too far fetched, you can't.

But to demonstrate how easily this Money-back guarantee is easily abused from my researches.

You have no choice of claiming that the item is defective in order to avoid paying shipping fees. In his cases, that is substancial and a very nice incentitive to do so. I admit, there nothing more satisfying than finding a clever ways to save money.

By now, eBay know perfectly well what is going on. It is more rewarding to look away, act like innocent, than come up with something that cut a flow of incomes.

The item is still probably working and maybe in perfect condition and he just want to avoid the shipping fees, as apparently everyone does.

So, you need an expensive tool?

Just head to eBay, order it, use it, return it claiming it is defective, and cleverly avoid any fees. That's it!

All this completely enforced by eBay.

On every eBay communication, I am laconically pressured to accept the return, as it is. But I have the revolting feeling that what is best for eBay doesn't seems best to me.

[rocketscollectibles]

I don't even understand where is the scam. All you needed to do is to tell him to open a return, provide a label, and have him return it. If you tried to have ebay to step in at this step, and they closed the case in buyer's favor, unfortunately that's your mistake. And this is exactly why someone unexperienced should not sell expensive items to start. I'm sorry if i'm rude but you're doing a lot of assumptions and seems to try to create your own rules, it doesnt work like that. Tell buyer to open a return case. Provide a label. Have him return. Very simple system. If buyer return the item in a different condition or item swapped, here it's another story and you can have ebay to step in. If item was damaged in shipping, you can claim insurance. If everything is ok with the item, refund and move on. If item returned is ok and buyer exploited the money back guarantee system by making a false claim to return, report the buyer and move on.

The way you write and how much text too, i kinda can understand your buyer felt harrassed. No way you really tried to call him on his personal number, don't do that. 

[pjcdn2005]

"Since your buyer (I assume we are looking at the Genie TECH PRO LINK Diagnostic Tool ) could leave feedback,  it seems they did not open a Claim at all"

---------------

??

Buyers can open a claim and leave feedback.

[mrdutch1001]

Yes old threads are often closed because out dated information and/or irrelevant to current times. Best to Start your own thread for what pertains to your currentr issue...do NOT piggy-back on an old threead that no longer has relevance to current situations,changes,policies,information...

[mrdutch1001]

Amazon is plagued with its own issues as are all the other large selling sites...IF you think you can avoid scammers by avoiding eBay, well maybe you will be more comfortable dealing with all the scammers  on selling sites like Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist,etc,etc.

[mrdutch1001]

Have been a seller and a buyer on eBay for 20 years and NEVER been scammed...perhaps my lifelong experiences of BEING AWARE of scams and how to detect scams and scammers has helped along the way.

[Anonymous]

You never googled your things. I don't buy that.

business AZFABRICATION frederickburg. VA, 12:57 pm call duration  2:09 3/16/2023 1 xxx - 371- xxx1

Public record.

Just note, there is not a single trace of lie in what I said. It is documented to the slightest commas.

I leave the interpretion to anyone. 

For you, very, very easy to say Move On when you're not concerned. And I'm perfectly aware that you shoot yourself in the foot if you say anything bad, as a seller yourself, against eBay. That's how it goes.

Call me a fooled, but I don't beleive you're that much detached of your selling ebay business, as your reply tend to demonstrate, when it comes to you. Let's be real.

I hope no one makes a new account, buy your items and act like this with you. 

I will put a conclusion to this, trust me.

Meanwhile, feel free to add anything you like.

[Anonymous]

yes, he opened a return claim. I have until the 21.

[Anonymous]

The coincidence and timing just striked me after 3 replies in a row from 3 differents person, they close the thread.

It's doesn't give a good impression IMO.

Your points make total sense.

[rocketscollectibles]

For you, very, very easy to say Move On when you're not concerned. And I'm perfectly aware that you shoot yourself in the foot if you say anything bad, as a seller yourself, against eBay. That's how it goes.

Call me a fooled, but I don't beleive you're that much detached of your selling ebay business, as your reply tend to demonstrate, when it comes to you. Let's be real.

That's irony i just told you that you are making a lot of assumptions and then you are making again a lot of assumptions. I'm not defending eBay, i don't care about eBay. But there's a logical system, there's rules, and you did an unexperienced seller mistake. Reality is that an experienced seller do not lose his item in your shoes. He accept return, receive his item back, refund, and relist. Indeed it should have been very easy to move on if correctly handled. From what i understand you tried to fight a case and you lost. And you tried to fight that case from assumptions. Imagine being in the buyer shoes now, you buy something and you receive an item not working, and seller is able to decline your return, you would be there again saying you got scammed if eBay did not refund you. This is why sellers can't decline everything for anything, sellers could be able to ship broken items all days long. Thinking about if buyer is lying or not, it's assumptions. Simply accept the return. You did a mistake and paid the high cost. Maybe buyer was really lying about the reason of return, who knows, but you did not lost your money because of this. You fought the case instead of providing a solution in rules, and lost your case. And again this is why you do not sell expensive items without knowledge. You learnt it the hard way