eBay

nvmos007 · ‎02-04-2023

Regarding the latest fee inrease:

Example:

$20 Sale + $3.50 Shipping = $23.50 + $3.06 (13% HST) = TOTAL: $26.56

FVF = (TOTAL-Shipping) x 13.25% = $3.06

HST on FVF = FVF x 13% = $.40

FVFS = Shipping x 13.25% = $.46

HST on FVFS = FVFS x 13% = $.06

MP Fee = $.30

HST on MP Fee = MP Fee x 13% = $.04

TOTAL FEES = FVF + HST on FVF + FVFS + HST on FVFS + MP Fee + HST on MP Fee =

$3.06 + $.40 + $.46 + $.06 + $.30 + $.04 = $4.26

Total fees as a % of original sale price = $4.26/$20.00 = 21.3%

Suggestions:

Apply the FVF to the item's sale price only = $2.99 (includes HST). Removes the payment of a fee on a tax collected

Remove the FVFS = ($.52). Never should have been applied. Removes the fee on a zero sum transaction

Remove the MP Fee = ($.34). This can be more than covered by the interest earned on funds withheld until transfer to seller's bank account.

Revised total fees as a % of original sale price = $2.99/$20.00 = 15%

mrdutch1001 · ‎02-04-2023

"Suggestions:"

your "WISH" list I presume?

Good luck with that!

marnotom! · ‎02-04-2023

@nvmos007 wrote:

Suggestions:
Apply the FVF to the item's sale price only = $2.99 (includes HST). Removes the payment of a fee on a tax collected
Remove the FVFS = ($.52). Never should have been applied. Removes the fee on a zero sum transaction

Seeing how long you've been on eBay, I'm surprised you don't seem to know or understand why FVFs are charged on shipping. In the early days of eBay when FVFs were just charged on the item's selling price, many sellers took advantage of this by inflating their shipping charges so that they would be paying FVFs on artificially low item prices. While some buyers were okay with this, many were not. While sellers could be reported for "fee avoidance" it really didn't work that well.

Also keep in mind that sellers that offer "free" shipping often fold some or all the shipping cost into the item price, so a policy of charging FVFs on the item price only would put these sellers at a disadvantage.

When eBay started charging FVFs on the total transaction charge, it dropped the percentages it took of the sale in most if not all categories and has been tweaking with them regularly since.

@nvmos007 wrote:
Remove the MP Fee = ($.34). This can be more than covered by the interest earned on funds withheld until transfer to seller's bank account.

You probably recall that PayPal had/has a similar fee. It seems to be pretty standard in the payments industry to charge a flat transaction charge in addition to a percentage of the total payment.

By the way, eBay claims that it holds payments in non-interest bearing accounts.

msau4301 · ‎02-05-2023

While it's only a short promotion, eBay currently has 50% off the final value fees until February 9th. It only applies to new listings (so if you have something to add it is a good time!) for 20 items maximum and other category criteria. Lotzofuniquegoodies has put a post here recently with more info and a link if you didn't get the email sent directly.

I've sold one item since the promotion and got the fees savings of 50%. Let's hope it's a recurring promotion!

msau4301 · ‎02-05-2023

Just to add you have to actually "activate" the promotion with the prompt.

nvmos007 · ‎02-05-2023

Interesting response - on the FVFS comment you seem to suggest all sellers are ne'er-do-wells intent on fleecing eBay. A seller should not have to pay fees on the portion of a transaction which provides them no monetary value.

Regarding the reference to the MP fee being an industry standard-it's just a money grab in addition to the fees already collected by Paypal, which are not unsubstantial by the way.

Regarding your comment - "By the way, eBay claims that it holds payments in non-interest bearing accounts" In the current interest rate environment do you actually believe this is still the case?

Finally, you have not indicated in your response whether you agree generally with my calculations-does this suggest you support giving eBay ~20% of the value of each item you sell on their site?

Just curious...

nvmos007 · ‎02-05-2023

You can only institute change by exposing the current weaknesses in the system...

If more people complained rather than threatening to leave the site maybe, just maybe, something might change on the fee calculation front.

nvmos007 · ‎02-05-2023

That promotion was just crumbs being thrown by eBay to calm the uproar over their latest fee increase.

BTW, I never received that promotion and I've been a seller for 15 years.

The best eBay could do to recognize this accomplishment was to send me a chintzy form e-mail with a graphic of a half candle which was representative of some sort of badge.

I was not impressed...

mrdutch1001 · ‎02-05-2023

"If more people complained rather than threatening to leave the site maybe, just maybe, something might change on the fee calculation front."

and you really believe a mega site like eBay is going to change because a small percentage of its milllions of users complain? You ain't never gonna get enough sellers to complain!

Sellers come, sellers go...a seller leaves there is and always will be another seller to fill the void. You haven't noticed the countless "newbies"?

I may not like eBay's fees (which with the new increase will be about 18% for me), is the cost of selling on this site and I agree to that when I use this site...

I am an "infrequent"/occasional/hobby seller who has always listed & sold on other sites along with eBay. I don't "depend" on eBay for anything. I use eBay for the purpose intended - a platform on which I can list & sell if I so choose and I agree to follow all said rules, policies,fees and any changes and that goes for any selling site out there , not just eBay!

reallynicestamps · ‎02-05-2023

Paypal and Managed Payments and Moneris(which processes most credit card transactions in Canada) follow the financial industry's Standard Practice of charging their fees on the ENTIRE payment they process without asking how the total amount is reached.

This has been true since the invention of the credit card in the late 1940s and to my personal certain knowledge since we got our first merchant credit card account (remember Chargex?) in the early 1980s.

Managed Payments is slightly more transparent than eBay+Paypal, because fees are charged immediatel on each transaction, instead of immediately for some and monthly for other as was the status quo ante.

A lot of sellers who thought they had a profitable side hustle are learning they have a fun, if money-sucking , hobby.

marnotom! · ‎02-05-2023

@nvmos007 wrote:

Interesting response - on the FVFS comment you seem to suggest all sellers are ne'er-do-wells intent on fleecing eBay.

I don't believe I said or even suggested anything of the sort. My point was simply that there was enough of this "fee avoidance" going on to give those running the then-adolescent eBay a lot of concern. Aside from the lost income, it certainly wasn't a good "look" for a site trying to attract buyers as well as sellers.

@nvmos007 wrote:

A seller should not have to pay fees on the portion of a transaction which provides them no monetary value.

In addition to the item being sold, an eBay seller is selling the service of shipping the item to the buyer. The fact that many sellers do it at or close to cost is their choice. Reasonable handling charges can be and are part of some sellers' shipping charges.

@nvmos007 wrote:

Regarding the reference to the MP fee being an industry standard-it's just a money grab in addition to the fees already collected by Paypal, which are not unsubstantial by the way.

I always find it interesting if not amusing that people who use a site like this for their own businesses criticize other businesses' attempts to generate income and cover their assets as "money grabs" when they'd probably jump at any opportunity to do something similar if it didn't wallop their bottom line. I suspect the reason those 30 to 50 cent transaction fees are in place is to ensure that the payment faciliator has at least some costs to their business covered in the event that the payment has to be reversed to the buyer, as those fees don't get refunded in the event a buyer gets a refund.

@nvmos007 wrote:

Regarding your comment - "By the way, eBay claims that it holds payments in non-interest bearing accounts" In the current interest rate environment do you actually believe this is still the case?

Technically speaking, it's Adyen that would hold the payment, not eBay, but maybe this older thread will help clarify things:

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Ebay-does-make-interest-of-your-money-in-Managed-Payment...

Besides, if eBay or Adyen were earning interest on these held (escrow) payments, I don't think eBay would have had any reason to adjust FVFs, would it?

@nvmos007 wrote:

Finally, you have not indicated in your response whether you agree generally with my calculations-does this suggest you support giving eBay ~20% of the value of each item you sell on their site?
Just curious...

I was unaware that you were soliciting feedback on your calculations. I do subscribe to another user's notion that it makes more sense to see if the total you're paying eBay makes sense rather than getting your Stanfield's in a twist over percentages. If you were selling that $20 item for a friend on a commission basis, would you feel that four dollars and change would adequately cover all the work you put into listing, packaging and bookkeeping? I know it wouldn't for me, and I'm not a dirty running-dog capitalist scum. I vote Orange.

flipistics · ‎02-05-2023

@nvmos007 wrote:
Interesting response - on the FVFS comment you seem to suggest all sellers are ne'er-do-wells intent on fleecing eBay. A seller should not have to pay fees on the portion of a transaction which provides them no monetary value.
Regarding the reference to the MP fee being an industry standard-it's just a money grab in addition to the fees already collected by Paypal, which are not unsubstantial by the way.
Regarding your comment - "By the way, eBay claims that it holds payments in non-interest bearing accounts" In the current interest rate environment do you actually believe this is still the case?
Finally, you have not indicated in your response whether you agree generally with my calculations-does this suggest you support giving eBay ~20% of the value of each item you sell on their site?
Just curious...

First, MP takes the place of Paypal. You aren't charged both MP and Paypal fees.

As for the rest, let's look at three scenarios for selling the same product:

Seller A: $10 + $90 shipping

Seller B: $70 + $30 shipping

Seller C: $100 + Free Shipping

How is eBay supposed to know what the value of the item is? Is it $10, $70, $100, or something else? Let's say the actual shipping cost for all three sellers was $30. How is eBay supposed to know that? The only way for them to know would be if sellers were using eBay labels for shipping, and if they tried to mandate that they'd lose all the major companies they've been trying to court over the last few years who can probably ship the same item out for $10.

You could argue that eBay should just charge a flat 20% fee on the whole transaction, but that would actually result in a substantial fee increase for higher value items and many categories. The only real problem I have is being charged full fees on taxes. I'm okay with them charging a reasonable payment processing fee on that portion (maybe 3% or whatever the industry standard is now), but I don't think FVF and promoted listings fees should be charged on the tax.