Purchased label & insurance through eBay for Canada Post, item got lost and now no insurance payout

[envyemporium]

I sold and shipped an item worth over $1000 and purchased the shipping label with insurance for full coverage (total cost for the label was around $50 CAD for expedited + insurance) for Canada Post through eBay. The item got lost, and this was confirmed by Canada Post, so I refunded the buyer.

However, when I tried to make a claim with Canada Post they told me no insurance was purchased. This is strange because I had selected the insurance when buying the shipping label through eBay and I received an email confirming that I had, as it had the cost breakdown of the label purchase and insurance was listed there. This is the label I printed out and sent with the package.  After speaking to an eBay representative, they informed me that in my eBay invoice, the shipping cost was only around $22! which didnt make sense as the email which contained the shipping label said it was $50. Additionally, under 'My shipping label' section in the seller account, it also shows $50 for the the total cost of the label. 

I sent Canada Post's claim department all the screenshots and evidence I had which included the cost of the item, how much it sold, the shipping label and cost breakdown I received from eBay in my email. They informed me they could not do anything as in their system no insurance was purchased and that the issue was on eBays end as in their system this error is not possible. They also told me that for the tracking number on the shipping label my name was not even on it and that the sender was shown as 'eBay' which is highly irregular as they have not seen that before and that with all the cases they have dealt with through amazon,ebay, etc the sender name was the name of the client. This is an issue because even if Canada Post was to offer the insurance claim payout it would go to eBay and not me

I then tried to speak with eBay and explain to them what the Canada Post claims agent told me and was not given any help at all. I even had the number of the claims agent and had him willing to speak with eBay to confirm on their end what the situation was and an agent promised he would contact the Canada Post agent but he never did. I spoke with at least 4 different eBay customer service reps who all promised they would escalate this case and have it resolved or that a supervisor would call me back but I received no help or reply.

I've spent at least 8+ hours on the phone over the past 2+ months trying to resolve this issue, and for the most part Canada Post has been responsive and have actually escalated the case but eBay has done nothing to help and have outright lied to me on several occasions.

I attached a portion of the email I got from eBay which had the shipping label and cost

Is there anything I can do at this point?

[envyemporium]

I had an online chat with an eBay rep on tuesday to get an update on the case and when a supervisor would get in touch with me. I was informed that the case was not escalated even though I had requested this on multiple occasions through phone chat and was told by ebay reps they would do so. The eBay rep told me he would escalate and get a supervisor in touch within 48 hours. I recieved a call yesterday (2 days later) from a regular eBay rep with whom I had to again go over all the details of the case and they were of no help.

I just got off another online chat with an eBay representative. Basically, they told me that the case was now closed since its been more than  30 days since the transaction occured, and that they would have to send this to the appeals department to reopen it and would recieve an update withtin 24 hours.

As of now, I will begin to pursue other options provided to me here by eBay members and see how that goes in the meantime. I will keep you updated, and I appreciate everyone's help and comments.

[envyemporium]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I'm sorry I don't remember exactly what you have tried so far but since there is evidence that you purchased the postage than you might try talking to ebay customer service on Facebook or Twitter by sending them a private message. There seems to be some sort of communication problem between CP and eBay labels so imo they should be responsible for the fixing the problem in your situation and for future situations.

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That is a great idea, and another avenue that I will be looking to pursue. Thank you

[intimewithmusic]

Topic : Shipping High Value Items & Insurance

Thank you. Before continuing I want to thank you for opening a topic of particular interest to me. You have been open and frank with the details.  As well as helping with your own situation by posting you are also helping the many visitors, many new Sellers, who read your posts and do not comment. So thank you. 

I can't advise you with the experience of Mrspecial editions who has been very helpful through his own experience. I have never had to file an insurance claim for a "lost" package. My day will come. Probably just lucky. 

I started shipping worldwide in 1981. You can find evidence of that on my website. Since then I've shipped for other companies plus my own company since 1985. I can help with shipping practices that may prevent this in the future. 

Part 1

Shipping 101

A "Shipper's"  job is delivery.  The packing and labelling is the fun part but shipping is about delivery.  In '81 I was working for the largest Drum Centre on the planet. the first thing Ray taught me about shipping was to put proper customs information on the outside of the package. This isn't necessarily what is written on the item box. 

Customs and Canada's domestic services only need to see info that is relevant for their job.  for example If I was shipping Eddie Van Halen's guitar the label would read "Used electric guitar".  🙂

Customs , Canada Post USPS etc employess only need to know a used electric guitar is in the box. If there are restrictions for entry such as wood species (guitar necks) or animal restrictions (guitar saddles). I add that in an external customs manifest. 2 copies are attached to the outside of the shipment. CP's disclaimer "Manifest Not Required" only applies to domestic shipments.  This is not mandatory. Most people shipping cheap stuff don't know about it and don't care. 

My experience and training tells me the description of package contents (EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 XC BNIB & SEALED) was equivalent to writing "Contains $1000. Please Steal Me". You're probaly Ok tranferring titles from Ebay for a $20 Toaster. No one's going to risk their job stealing a $20 toaster.  I'm not saying the Nvidea card was stolen. It is a small item and may very well turn up in the back of a truck somewhere. 

To those who just tuned into the middle of this,

This is about Transfering Ebay Titles to shippiing labels for High Value Items

As well as that I firmly believe you have done everything possible other that relabilling your shipment. You bought insurance and Ebay took that money. If you haven't read their insurance policy. Keep up the good fight. It hasn't happened to me so Mrspecial-editions is a great source. Most similar situations I've monitored have resulted in the Seller being reimbursed. 

As well as Ebay Canada I would bring your story to the "Ebay for Buisiness" podcast. It's USA but they have a phone line and Canadians can call in. Griff is the host and he gets things done. Helped me once big time. Someone else mentioned Ebay for Buiness on Facebook.  That's good advice too. You leave your story and they follow up with you. 

Remember that Ebay listing titles are structured to attract buyers. We use strong key word in the right order. We  add feature descriptions of the goodness of the item. Titles are the "honey on the flytrap".  They are also the honey that attracts thieves enroute to their destinations. 

On a high value item don't put honey on the outside of your shipments. Crooks don't need to know that the guitar is Van Halen's.  Unfortunately,  Ebay makes it convenient to transfer the listing title and use it on the label. There are so many reasons not to allow this to happen on itmes of high value.. 

I didn't look to see if you sell overseas. For other who do another ill effect of putting the Ebay listing title on the shipment is that many foreign processing formats chop half of the title off. Customs might get something like RARE! One Of A Kind Chrome Toast... Manifest Not Required... They are going to open your shipment after it sits in Frankfurt for 6 weeks. 

Here are some titles and related shipment content descriptions

Title = EVERLY BROTHERS Vtg 1993 Original STAGE MANAGERS SHIRT XLrg Single Stitch NEW!

Label = 1 PCE vintage T shirt

Title = Lollapalooza Vintage 1992 Vancouver Rare PURPLE Adjustable Ball Cap Excellent!

Label = 1 PCE Vintage Ball Cap

I didn't have better ones handy. Everyone should get the point.  Once again this is for people who want to learn and not the veterans.

I also recommend taking a photograph of high value items during packing and just before it leaves your shop.  Capture the label, any stickers such a  Fragile, do Not Open with sharp Knife or Air Mail as well as the label. You can just store them up in your shipping table camera. These can come in handy and it take 2 seconds.  I won't get into why. You can find that out after a shipment gets chopped in half in customs. 

Advice is only as good as the experience behind it. 

Good luck with your claim!

ITWM 

🙂

Make sure that you still properly describe the contents and use the correct tarrif number for International shipments. 

[envyemporium]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

Topic : Shipping High Value Items & Insurance

My experience and training tells me the description of package contents (EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 XC BNIB & SEALED) was equivalent to writing "Contains $1000. Please Steal Me". You're probaly Ok tranferring titles from Ebay for a $20 Toaster. No one's going to risk their job stealing a $20 toaster.  I'm not saying the Nvidea card was stolen. It is a small item and may very well turn up in the back of a truck somewhere. 

To those who just tuned into the middle of this,

This is about Transfering Ebay Titles to shippiing labels for High Value Items

As well as that I firmly believe you have done everything possible other that relabilling your shipment. You bought insurance and Ebay took that money. If you haven't read their insurance policy. Keep up the good fight. It hasn't happened to me so Mrspecial-editions is a great source. Most similar situations I've monitored have resulted in the Seller being reimbursed. 

As well as Ebay Canada I would bring your story to the "Ebay for Buisiness" podcast. It's USA but they have a phone line and Canadians can call in. Griff is the host and he gets things done. Helped me once big time. Someone else mentioned Ebay for Buiness on Facebook.  That's good advice too. You leave your story and they follow up with you. 

Remember that Ebay listing titles are structured to attract buyers. We use strong key word in the right order. We  add feature descriptions of the goodness of the item. Titles are the "honey on the flytrap".  They are also the honey that attracts thieves enroute to their destinations. 

On a high value item don't put honey on the outside of your shipments. Crooks don't need to know that the guitar is Van Halen's.  Unfortunately,  Ebay makes it convenient to transfer the listing title and use it on the label. There are so many reasons not to allow this to happen on itmes of high value.. 

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Ok maybe I misunderstood your previous post, but I want to clarify that I did not put any description on the outside of the box, just the name and addresses. 

Thank you for your advice and comments.

[hlmacdon]

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@envyemporium wrote:

I had an online chat with an eBay rep on tuesday to get an update on the case and when a supervisor would get in touch with me.

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First rule of getting thing done: do not accept callbacks, ask to wait on hold while you are transferred, whether to appeals or to a supervisor. They will squirm and try to get you off the phone, but stick to your guns.

[pjcdn2005]

The title of the listing automatically gets transferred to the  custom info....I believe that's what @intimewithmusic  is referring to.  I always edit that section as the listing title isn't necessary and in some cases gives too much information to people that don't need to know it.  For example, a Coach black leather men's wallet simply needs to say 'wallet' on the customs form. The HS code would tell customs that it is a leather wallet.

[intimewithmusic]

When you print an Ebay label it always automatically adds the listing title into the labels "Contents Description field".  You say you did not put a description on the outside of the box but you aren't saying you manually editted it off the label. I'm confused @envyemporium .

If you didn't change the default before printing your label the listing title would definately be on the ouside of your shipment. The default Ebay and the other label vendors (PayPal & Shippo) use is the listing Title for descrption of contents.. I don't think you can delete the title and leave the box empty. I think you would have to delete "EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 XC BNIB & SEALED" and put in "Computer Part" or some such thing. Better to ask  a Seller of that stuff than me for what to put in there. 

I'm not sure how long you have to reprint an Ebay label. If you go to your page called  "My Shipping Labels" you may still be able to print it off and look at it. I didn't know that page existed but it does and it is a list of all of your Ebay label purchases. Very cool to know about. 

For anyone else tuned in, Shippo labels changed their label form recently.  You can edit International label content descriptions  but you can't edit domestic label  content descriptions. Or at least I can't. I was going to call shippo but if anyone here has used them recently (within the last month) and editted the contents description on a domestic label please let me know how you did it. 

Thank you ! Have a great weekend! 

And a big thanks to Lotz for teaching me how to tag somebody @lotzofuniquegoodies  🙂 !!

[envyemporium]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@envyemporium wrote:

I had an online chat with an eBay rep on tuesday to get an update on the case and when a supervisor would get in touch with me.

---

First rule of getting thing done: do not accept callbacks, ask to wait on hold while you are transferred, whether to appeals or to a supervisor. They will squirm and try to get you off the phone, but stick to your guns.

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Phone chats have not worked out for me so well as they wete very time consuming and there weren't any saved transcripts for record keeping which is beginning to become more important as I may have to pursue legal action. I have had ebay employees lie to me about escalating my case and now prefer to deal with email or chat as they can now be held accountable.

Could your advice still apply to the online chat? where I would ask the rep that I would just wait?

[mr.special-editions]

Moving forward no more phone calls, chat only document all discussions.  When your on chat, if the rep is clearly not being helpful, ask to speak to their supervisor (and always be polite) the supervisor will be able to forward you to another department while on chat.

I believe every province has some form of Pro Bono legal advice.  In Ontario it can be found here https://www.ontario.ca/page/small-business-access#laws 

For BC I did a quick search https://accessprobono.ca/ 

https://www.cba.org/Sections/Pro-Bono/Pro-Bono-Resources-in-Canada/Resources For all provinces

There's no rush in BC you have a few months short of two years to file.

The law in BC creates a time window to bring a legal action. For most claims, that window (or limitation period) is two years. Once two years have passed after a claim is “discovered," it’s too late to start a lawsuit.

The claim is said to be discovered on the first day you knew, or reasonably ought to have known, all the following:

• an injury, loss or damage occurred,
• it was caused at least partly by an act or omission (something neglected or left undone),
• the act or omission was that of the person you’re suing, and
• a court proceeding would be an appropriate way to seek a remedy.

For example, let’s say you buy a new high performance bicycle. Three months after you get it, the front brakes fail, and you’re in a serious crash. An expert you hire determines the brakes were faulty. The limitation period starts on the day you discovered the brakes were faulty and realized (or reasonably ought to have realized) it was the bike maker that was responsible for the damage.

https://dialalaw.peopleslawschool.ca/suing-in-small-claims-court/ 

Small claims is a last resort and you need legal advice for that

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[envyemporium]

Update ****

After waiting for a ebay appeals rep to contact me which surprise surprise did not happen, I opened up ANOTHER chat. Basically I was told since I voluntarily refunded the buyer the case is closed and can no longer be appealed..... I am at a lost for words at this point. First they promise me they will escalate, and they don't, and then they tell me to wait for a supervisor to contact me, they didn't, then they say the case is closed so I have to file an appeal, then they say I cant file an appeal since the case is closed.

I have tried my best to deal with these eBay reps, every single one of them ( I've spoken/chatted with over half a dozen at this point) have not helped me at all nor have they made an effort to try, and most have flat out LIED  each time making a NEW EXCUSE. I am beyond frustrated at this point because at least with Canada Post they have done what they promised they would and they have been very active in helping me resolve the issue. 

I did not have much time in the past week since I posted to pursue this case any further and to utilize all the advice the community here has generously provided, but I will. Slowly but surely, and I hope you all to stick around and continue to offer helpful advice and input as this progresses 

Thank you,

I will keep this post updated 

[intimewithmusic]

Very sorry to hear that.

• If you haven't yet I would still message through Messenger a summary of events on the Ebay For Business Facebook page. (Not a public post) and ask for intervention. Go to the top of their page and select [Send a Message]. Nothing to lose at this point.
• You may want to listen to Scavenger Lifes YouTube podcast yesterday about 3/4 of the way thru where they talk about insurance claims.
• For future shipments you might check out Shipsurance (3rd party). Noodle "Shipsurance Reviews" for 100 current to compare the disgrunted from the recommending. With them you cannot ship in any box that eludes to contents. That means no definitive description on outside (except what customs needs like I said before) You should ship in a plain brown box with no writing. You can't use your own business branded tape or logos etc and you shouldn't use 3rd party branded shipping supplies. 

I still hpe that money finds it's way back to you. Hundreds of people have followed your thread so if nothing else you have brought awareness to everyone. 

Thanks

IT

[byto253]

Just a clarification on the point about B.C. with 2 years to start a court case.  This is the statute of limitations and is not a just 2 years since a debt was owed or discovered, it is the time that not efforts and actions have been taken to try and collect.  If you have discourse with a debtor for 2 years and keep communication fresh with requests for payment the limitation period is from the last attempt to collect.  I dealt with this a lot in a former job.  If it was 2 years period from point of discovery, this becomes an objective for debt beats to string things along.   Best to initiate as soon as possible to keep it clean. 

And has has been pointed out, document like crazy and not let it rest. 

[envyemporium]

**Update**

I spent another 2+ hours today on chat. 

Whats interesting is now I've been disconnected by eBay 3 times in a row and on my last chat while I waited for him to read the transcript and the details of the case he simply said they cannot help me and closed the chat right away. They did not even give me an option to reply, just straight up closed it.

One of the reps said they would forward this to the technical department to see if there was a technical issue on their end, but the latter reps never mentioned that at all when I asked to escalate. 

Every single time though, they all kept trying to spin it around as either my fault or Canada Posts, even though I told them the lost package was not the problem, it was that I selected and bought insurance but eBay decided not to register it on the created label. This is the point where they "disconnect" or close the chat.

This is extremely blatant, and such poor customer service. I've never experienced anything this poor, these employees were either extremely incompetent, lazy or simply did not care.

I spent way too much time on this today, will try one last time with eBay tomorrow with both online chat and a phone call and see what they say.

[dinomitesales]

Ugh this is so frustrating to read through. I remember you posting about this on Reddit and I was the one that suggested you post a topic here on the forums.

My advice would be to stop using the general customer service lines for eBay (i.e. phone support and chat) - from my experience these are mainly representatives that have minimal training and typically follow a script to try and help people; if the situation becomes even the least bit complicated, or if they don't understand what you're trying to explain to them (which is a possibility since many of the reps are overseas), they will often end the conversation or simply tell you they can't help you. You also need to remember that the vast majority of these reps are used to dealing with eBay.COM users and specifically with USA-specific issues. Many of them may not even know that eBay.CA is a different site than eBay.COM, and they almost certainly are unaware that the eBay Labels integration with Canada Post is a new feature that (clearly) still has issues.

If you haven't already, contact eBay for Business on Facebook. I have found those reps to be LEAGUES better than any others - I believe they are US-based and seem to have a lot more ability to solve problems.

Also, every Wednesday there is a "Weekly Chat Session" that is posted here on the eBay.ca forums. Here is the link: https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Chat-Session/bd-p/23000000073. Sellers are able to post questions/concerns and get feedback from an actual eBay Canada rep. You need to bring this up on Wednesday's chat - tyler@ebay can provide you with feedback and escalate your problem to people that can actually help you (i.e. those in charge of eBay Labels on the Canada side).

Also, if you haven't already, try sending a direct email to ebaylabels@ebay.ca - when eBay Labels was first launched on eBay Canada I was emailing back and forth with one of the reps there named Amir who was an actual eBay Canada employee dealing with the launch of eBay Labels on the platform. If anyone is going to be able to help you it's someone on the other end of that email address.

[mr.special-editions]

@envyemporium 

This is an appeal process for Canada Post, it might be worth trying.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/ombudsman/  

or call them directly https://www.ombudsman.on.ca/home 

It says right on their website to call them even if you are unsure if they can help, maybe at the very least they can point you in the right direction

[pjcdn2005]

I agree that rather than waste time on chat or on the phone, contact eBay for business on Facebook by sending them a private message.  The customer service that you are dealing with are talking about the case but this has nothing to do with the buyer or the mbg case.  It sounds Ike it is more a situation where eBay took your for money for insurance but then did not pass on that insurance info to CP.   Contacting eBay labels is probably a good idea too....at the very least they should know how the process works and might have a contact at CP for you.

[byto253]

Wow, do you have the transcripts from the chats where a rep says they cannot help you and where they say are closing the chat?    

Just about time to file a small claims action.  Perhaps try some of higher level or optional contacts posted in chat but Ebay has made it clear they are taking zero responsibility for their error. 

[envyemporium]

yes I have them, I will make another post with some screenshots.

[envyemporium]

**Update**

So here's something I did not expect, I get an email this morning from eBay saying that I have received some funds. The funds were labeled as "eBay Incidental Reimbursement Credit" and the amount was $1075.12. So it seems they actually came through after much hassle and at this point close to a dozen hours with ebay customer service.

Now there's two things still on my mind regarding this situation. One, the amount refunded was $1075.12 and not the total  $1097 that was refunded to the buyer which included the shipping cost. Second, after spending so much time and going through not only the financial stress of losing close to $1100 for almost 2 months in addition to the mental toll this had and the time I spent over the phone and online chat trying to resolve this, I feel like I should at least be given some compensation. I understand I should feel fortunate for a resolution but this whole situation did not sit well with me especially how I was treated.


Any thoughts on this?

[byto253]

First, congratulations on your grit, determination and finally getting a reimbursement.   I guess the pounding away finally had an effect and IMHO it shows that Ebay knows that legally they do not have a leg to stand on.  It looks like a case was finally opened for real and someone with some authority looked at it for 30 seconds, said pay the man, we have nothing.  

Second, the outcome is not perfect, it is frustrating, and it is not really fair or just.  But at this point the effort to perhaps get an incremental $40 back and engaging the corporate machine is not likely worth it. 

When you refunded were your seller fees credited back to you?  I am guessing that the difference is Ebay taking fees since you now got "paid" for the item.   I think that is chintzy after the stress and time you put into this but the chances of further recovery are likley minimal at best.   WIth situations like this, an outcome where you still feel scr*wed over is pretty typical.  It was a mess from the get go and is ending messy.

Perhaps limit it to a follow-up a chat or call requesting a breakdown of how that amount was determined since 100% of the insurance value was not reimbursed.  Technically there is likely a case for Ebay taking fees, and getting compensation for your time spent due to their mess up will be difficult as it does not tick an authorized box.  It would basically be a goodwill gesture and that is not a precedent they have any interest in establishing.  

At this point, I personally would take the money and move to another option for shipping valuable items.  Perhaps chitchats if in your area, or if not get a small business discount card and deal directly with the post office.