eBay

rocketscollectibles · ‎04-17-2023

So i sold a trading card and buyer opened an INAD case. For my first time, buyer claims that the card is fake. I'm an experienced cards seller and the card is a no brainer authentic. At first i thought maybe the buyer was just lacking knowledge. I explained and prooved to the buyer that it's authentic. He only answered 'ok'. He did not closed the case or said anything more. In his first message he claimed he wanted to be refund for it. The way it goes and by his writting, at this point i suspect it was a scam attempt. Where he thought i would refund and he would keep the card.

That being said. I'll wait to see if he close the case, if he don't i'll accept the return and provide a label. I know how it works. If he return it, it's an obvious false claim or scam attempt failed. I will report this buyer at this point.

My question is, i know seller pay shipping return, but do we really have to take the loss when it's an obvious false claim or scam attempt? Is there anything we can do here? Having to take a $20 loss on this is really dumb. I proved it's authentic and it's obvious to be, and buyer do not react.

maximus7001 · ‎04-17-2023

Do not wait. When the case closes without resolution ebay will refund him and he keeps the item. Send the label now or this will end badly.

maximus7001 · ‎04-17-2023

.

marnotom! · ‎04-17-2023

@rocketscollectibles wrote:

My question is, i know seller pay shipping return, but do we really have to take the loss when it's an obvious false claim or scam attempt?

Yes.

Remember, you’re not involved in a court case. You’re in a business transaction. Not all sales work out or are profitable. It’s the nature of the beast.

flipistics · ‎04-17-2023

Yeah, I mean the sensible thing is probably to write it off if the value is low, but I'd be really tempted to force the return too. He either thinks he's correct (or had buyer's remorse) and will return it, slink away, or send an actual fake one back. In the first case, while it sucks, you've provided the excellent and expected level of customer service. In the second case, problem solved. In the third case, block and report him. If you're top rated, you also have additional options in giving only a 50% refund and getting some of the return shipping covered.

rocketscollectibles · ‎04-17-2023

Do not wait. When the case closes without resolution ebay will refund him and he keeps the item. Send the label now or this will end badly.

No worries i know how it works. I had 4-days. I had time to handle it.

He literally just closed the case. I either convinced him it's authentic or scared him. No idea if it was a scam attempt or someone with a lack of knowledge who jumped too early on conclusion. The fact he did not answered or debate with my answers tells me it was a scam attempt that failed, but at the same time it was shipped lettermail he could have claimed INR. I don't know.

msau4301 · ‎04-18-2023

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
He literally just closed the case. I either convinced him it's authentic or scared him. No idea if it was a scam attempt or someone with a lack of knowledge who jumped too early on conclusion. The fact he did not answered or debate with my answers tells me it was a scam attempt that failed, but at the same time it was shipped lettermail he could have claimed INR. I don't know.

I don't think it was a scam, I think the buyer just wasn't very knowledgable. Since it was sent lettermail it would have been easier to open an INR as you say. I don't know much about the trading card world but maybe your card seemed so perfect to him he questioned if it was real. You explained it to him and he closed the case, that's a good thing!

ricarmic · ‎04-18-2023

I also think it is more likely an inexperienced buyer based on what I see here.

It reminds me of the sad but funny time when I had a fellow buy the item then immediately want to cancel because they were fake stamps. The reason that they came to believe they were fake was that I said in the title something like "New Zealand set of stamps Sc 451-3 MNH nice copies". Traditionally in my world "copies" was a way of saying "examples". There was a language barrier and I could not ultimately convince them that they were actual stamps and not fake copies of stamps and I had to refund. Of course I went and changed any titles that had the word "copies" in them and stopped using that word henceforth.....

Conversely, buyers are faced with a lot of fake stuff out there, I see a lot of it happening in the stamp world for rare stamps poorly reproduced, sometimes identified as fakes sometimes not, so the versa where the buyers see all sellers as criminals is understandable as well.

ricarmic · ‎04-18-2023

HA! Crazy how contributing here benefits one sometimes, I had a thought and searched "copies" in my listings and @#$@#$@#% if I didn't have 12 of them, reaching back years! Got them all fixed up now, good thing this thread stimilated this memory!

femmefan1946 · ‎04-18-2023

I see a lot of it happening in the stamp world for rare stamps poorly reproduced, sometimes identified as fakes sometimes not,

And it doesn't help that in philately there is a sub-hobby of collecting "Fake,Forgeries, and Cinderellas" especially in the early years of the hobby, when collectors were more interested in filling spaces than in having the real thing.

brettjet38 · ‎04-18-2023

Trading Cards

Stamps

Coins

Ancient Coins

Artifacts

ALL are prone to "counterfeits and fakes"

Roman Coins (which I also deal with, less so on eBay) are faked in the Silver Denarius category, but only in the higher-value rare/key Emperors.

Also like the fake P stamps from China.

rocketscollectibles · ‎04-19-2023

Since it was sent lettermail it would have been easier to open an INR as you say.

Some scammers lacking knowledge to scam. Or are just dumb. I've seen people doing refund extortion based falsy on condition while they could have just claimed INR, more than once. Maybe the buyer thought he would have a refund and could keep the card by claiming it's fake. Can't really know. In his first message he said he knew it was fake at 100% and could proved it. If it wasnt a scam attempt why did he said nothing after i explained him it's authentic, if he knew at 100% it was fake. He changed his mind too quick to make me think he was legit thinking it's fake. Why did he directly claimed he wanted a refund on this purchase too, like he was requesting to ebay. Anyway it's all assumptions. But i scared him by telling him he would need to return, that shipping cost may not be refund, and that i would report his account for an abuse of the money back guarantee as i proved it's authentic. That's how i deal with similar suspicious cases, i proffessionally scare them. Always works. If he was legit that's unfortunate, i also had to block him, but he's the one who jumped to open a case instead of contacting. And based on false accusations.

ilikehockeyjerseys · ‎04-19-2023

Look at the user's feedback "Left for others" and then the "Received as buyer". If you see multiple feedback that indicates problems, it can help you when dealing with eBay. For example, if a buyer has 10 lifetime positive feedbacks from sellers (indicating roughly around 10 purchases), and they have left a handful of feedbacks for others stating there was a problem with the transaction, eBay may take action against their account if you report them. It doesn't matter if they are positive, negative, or neutral. What matters is that you can point out to eBay that the comment in the feedback points to the buyer having many problems, look this user joined in 2022, they appear to have a problem almost every transaction. An example would be if they leave a comment in a positive for a seller "item arrived damaged, seller made it good" "item is counterfeit, but seller was nice and refunded", etc. It doesn't have to be a negative. The point is to see if the buyer has a pattern of abusing the buyer protection.

If you contact eBay's Business page on Twitter or Facebook and explain the situation, along with pointing out the buyer's high portion of problematic feedback, they might forward the buyer to their security team. Which could result in the buyer's account getting removed from eBay's Buyer Protection program. In rare cases, the account might be deleted entirely.

Because a case is already open, eBay will usually still require you to resolve the case with a return label or a full refund. eBay doesn't arbitrate individual cases. I have only seen one situation where a scammer who must have already been on eBay/Paypal's radar had their account deleted with a case open. Usually, eBay will instruct you to resolve the case, even if they intend to remove the buyer from the Buyer Protection program.

I don't know if there are any possible ramifications for your account if eBay wrongly agrees with the buyer that the item is counterfeit. eBay employees tasked with removing items from the site do wrongly mark items as counterfeit from time to time, and go by a policy that once a listing is determined to go against the counterfeit item policy, there needs to be undisputed proof to have it overturned, which is nearly impossible for pre-owned items outside of the authenticity guaranteed program (which doesn't require undisputed proof, only the opinion of an expert contracted by eBay). Undisputed proof usually means an invoice and relationship with a distributor, which you won't have for a pre-owned item. Because you don't sell counterfeit items, you might be better off just refunding and blocking the buyer. If they are a scammer, that is likely why they chose to make a counterfeit claim. With that said, I don't know for sure if eBay will take any action against the listing since it is a buyer's word vs yours.

Otherwise, if you aren't worried about the counterfeit issue, block the buyer, provide a label or don't provide a label, refund, and report them to eBay for misusing the buyer protection program. You won't get your money back though.