Shipping to US over 800 USD (and shipping through US to overseas over 800 USD) - what I need?

[itolduandso]

I have a replacement part of a commercial machine on sale and I have a potential buyer in Europe interested and asking about shipping. The value is in excess of 800 USD.  However, I realized I will have potentially a similar issue when shipping to the US.

Because of value is over 800 USD, I can't use ChitChats or Stallion and I can't even use Stallion cross border service since they don't do customs work for value over 800 USD.

I understand the implications of shipping something to the US over 800 USD require an informal importation process and a commercial invoice (I can prepare myself) + require a USMCA Certificate of Origin document like the one here:

https://www.shippingsolutions.com/hubfs/forms/CUSMA%20Certificate%20of%20Origin%20-%20English%20-%20...

That document requires me to provide the EIN number from US IRS. I understand I need to call the IRS and apply for it. (Not a big deal since I will need that in the near future).

I will fill in the document myself, I assume, should be no problem...

I have following options:

US Buyer

I will probably ship by Canada Post or UPS.  

Question:

- Does Canada Post or UPS require me to put the USMCA Certificate of Original in the package ?   Or do I sent the USMCA Certificate together with the commercial invoice to the buyer and let them deal with it?

International Buyer

Shipping from Canada costs a fortune. The rate I am getting is $300-400 whether it's Canada Post, UPS, eShipper, Flaship, Flagship, Netparcel.. you name it... The best rates seem to be NetParcel in general but still find quite high.

I looked at the PirateShip website and the rate I am getting to ship the same package from the US is $110 USD and same level of service in therms of the number of days and tracking.  I will buy private insurace from U-Pic.com, they have good rates and decent service.

So the idea with the international shipment would be to buy the label at PirateShip and then take it to the US myself to ship from the USPS office.

Can I do that?

What would be the process at the US Border?  I know they will want the invoice and USMCA Certificate.. Will the border agent ask me for additional customs paper work?  Can I fill in myself or do I need to pay a customs broker to do that (and pay the customs broker a fee).

Yes, I do understand I may need to pay US import duties, but to me it seems the import duties will be less than what I pay for the shipping from Canada..

It's quite a lot of trouble but adding gas, duties, fees.. it seems it's still less expensive shipping from USPS in the US.

I assume there is no way to get any duties refunded from US even if I have a proof the item was sold to an intenrational buyer and shipped to them?

I have never done much international shipping with this value in the past, other than using UPS/Fedex but their rates seem to me excessive and have gone up even more over last few years and even more recently.

[reallynicestamps]

What are the weight and dimensions of the (packed) item.

Because Canada Post ships worldwide but not over certain measurements.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/information/app/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s1

[pjcdn2005]

I don't have experience with shipping items of that value but I do know that you would need signature confirmation for inr seller protection.  If you use CP to the US you would need to use xpresspost to get a signature.  Getting a signature in other countries is probably avsilable only by courier.

Was the item manufactured in Canada, US or Mexico? If not, would you need a certificate of origin?   It's my impression that it is needed only to prove that the item was made in one of those countries to prevent duty from being charged. 

You mentioned taking the item over the border yourself...is the border open to vehicles now?  Based on what I have read here, you would need to fill out some sort of commercial customs clearance before you went to the border.

[hlmacdon]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

You mentioned taking the item over the border yourself...is the border open to vehicles now?  Based on what I have read here, you would need to fill out some sort of commercial customs clearance before you went to the border.

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There are strict requirements for cross border land travel for those not registered as commercial transporters and travelling for commercial business. For importing product in you would need to at a minimum to be a registered business (with importer/exporter number), SCAC registered on the US side, be registered with the Ace manifesting system and creating an e-manifest on the day of importation, and be bringing back commercial goods to Canada. That last requirement is key at the moment.

For anything that isn't a section 321 entry and that isn't going to be consistent ongoing activity that you can justify as necesary and convince them as being essential to your business you are better off leaving this to a business at the border that deals with the brokerage and freight forwarding side. If you don't know what you are doing the border folks on both sides aren't going to be particularly happy. CBSA has been handing out hefty fines ($3000 if I recall correct) to people not observing the rules or that they deem to be non-essential if it is not considered regular and necessary travel in their eyes. If you are not returning with commercial goods the best case scenario is you end up with a mandatory self-isolation period and you'll have the police checking in on you during that period.

[itolduandso]

Thanks I appreciate. I assume the requirement to bring commercial goods back to Canada is related to pandemic restriction and apparently they are lifting the requirement to isolate for Vaccinated Canadians.

However, even if the border was completely open to travel, from what you said is I can't take things myself without having all the registrations and show I am doing it as part of my regular and essential business.

From what you described, even if I had all the registrations, I still would have hard time to get through because I am not doing it as regular business and would likely have issues with paper work, unable convince them why I don't use broker and forwarder and in the worst case would get even slaped with fines.

Okay, that's tough life baby.. This requirement for this being an "ongoing" activity sounds like a hurdle even for many legitimate businesses, no?  Doesn't it add to complexity and costs?

I remember in the EU in Europe about 30 years ago or more, before there was Shenghen, moving of goods wasn't difficult and my parents would moonlight to fill in the paperwork on the day before an employee drove his transporter cubevan accorss the border. It used to be 2-4 hours wait time but everybody could just do that. Of course, today, without the pandemic restrictions, the process is even easier.

It's mind-boggling how difficult the commercial activity is between Canada and US and the USMCA didn't make it any better for anybody. 

[itolduandso]

Even if the costs of engaging a broker and fowarder are way over the costs savings here, it's something I am interested to know more about in general about importing to US. So I will talk to these guys to see how much they cost.  At least I don't need to feel I look like a fool. My guess is when I ask the newbie questions a forwarder I would likely get the worst possible rates.

https://www.crossborderpickups.ca/outbound#outbound-service

[hlmacdon]

The requirement to bring back commercial goods is entirely political in nature as PHAC (as well as some of the provinces frankly) doesn't want small business operators crossing but they have to face up to the reality of how business is conducted between the US and Canada and how changes to cross border importation have put small businesses into the same system as commercial transporters. 

It used to be a much simpler process in the past as you could simply fill out a form and pay a crossing fee as needs required if your goods fell under the section 321 exemptions criteria. The problem is that system was absued by businesses using Canada as a point of entry to get products into the US and bypass US regulatory compliance as well as duties. The respective regulatory bodies wanted oversight and insight into what was coming in to allow for better screening of products, hence small business doing low value importations now use the same manifesting system as commercial transporters and we are all under one umbrella.  

Because crossing is so polticized at the moment CBSA is applying extra scrutiny and the word essential gets thrown around a lot, as do terms like necessary. Since everyone is using the same system now for trade and commerce we are in the same boat, so it is difficult for them to simply say this one group is part of trade and commerice and this other group isn't as the process for both is identical. The compromise seems to have been to force you to at least be commercially importing something commercial back into Canada.

They have flip flopped on this several times and CBSA ultimately get to decide if your reason for travel falls under the acceptable travel for trade and commerce activities based on their criteria and those that PHAC is forcing on them.  If you have been a regular crosser with an established history you get more leeway as they understand it is part of your normal trade activities. It isn't a great time to start the process as a newbie. CBSA can be short of patinence as there have been people trying to abuse the system to do stupid things like go get their retail packages. The provinces have sprung surprise checks on the Canadian side targetting small business travellers as well.

The brokers and freight forwarders will more often than not just tell you to go use a courier instead for a smaller shipment. Looking at some of the smaller companies situated physically at the border usually yields better results as you'll find outfits that cater towards smaller businesses. Some of them specialize in certain kinds of goods for example.

[itolduandso]

I see. That PHAC and CBSA back and forth ... it is temporary, right?  Or is it expected to stay in place even after the restrictions are lifted?

When you say it was simplier process for goods under 321 excemption...   When was that? Do  you mean before the restrictions or was it well before that?   

The limit in the past was $200, not $800. Was it still worth for businesses to do that crossing to avoid duties?

[hlmacdon]

We'll have to see how things play out as they look at gradually reopening the border. Simpler referring to when section 321 importers didn't have to use the emanifest system. Some additional costs now with the annual SCAC renewal, transponder annual have also doubled in recent years, and using the emanifest system means more data entry work. Whether it was worthwhile to do yourself always depeneded on your volumes and average selling prices as well weighing the annual costs. Doing it yourself means more predictability on when things actually ship. For occasional activity it is more economical to leave that to a forwarder that handles it for you.