Standard promoted fee, things that make you go hmmmm

[ricarmic]

I've noticed a couple things over the last few weeks.

As others have identified my promoted impressions rate is lower than it used to be, not as dramatic or as of a certain day as others have seen.

I've noticed that the "suggested" promoted rate has risen about 50%, so for example, stuff that used to suggest 6.2% is now suggesting 10.1%.

I'm interested to know if others are noticing this incremental change in the suggested rate.

Theoretically this tells me the average promoted rate people are willing to pay is increasing in my categories.

Since mine hasn't changed if that is true it would explain why my impressions is lower now.

Looks like I'll have to try some top secret experiments.

[38e_avenue]

I will add add something weird (more "hmmmm" 😁) to this discussion:  

I promote all my listings at 5%. 

Yesterday, I sold 5 items to 5 different buyers - ALL of them as promoted. 

Today, I also sold 5 items to 5 different buyers - NONE of them as promoted. 

Any explanation...? 😃

[ricarmic]

Does anyone really understand how things really work here?😲

Even if one figures it out today, something's changed tomorrow it seems!😠

These days in the middle of the week, I'd be happy to be selling 5 things a day!

The experiments continue!😀

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Does anyone really understand how things really work here?😲

Even if one figures it out today, something's changed tomorrow it seems!😠

These days in the middle of the week, I'd be happy to be selling 5 things a day!

The experiments continue!😀

---

@ricarmic

From any of your recent testing have you seen dramatic spikes in traffic. From my testing traffic, organic and promoted are both down as of late. From past experience (previous years since starting to run promotions) organic to promoted, organic views were 1/3 higher. Now it is pretty much 1 to 1. Just seems like wayyyy too much tinkering under the hood for little gain or improvement in sales. See final screenshot and you judge.

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

.com

.ca

Yesterday I updated my promoted campaigns, added a lot of new ones to the .CA (Note that they were all 2% which it told me wouldn't make a difference.... hmmmm)

[intimewithmusic]

I think your answer is determining if a listing needs promotion at all.  When listing an item;

• What's the sell thru rate?
• How many are currently active?
• What are the solds' price range?
• What are the actives' price range?
• Exactly what breed is my item: IE 1st printing, condition, provenance,  color?
• Is the item's timeliness immediate? EG: A Deadpool & Woverine signed film set poster (movie release is July 26). No promo needed.  Trump bibles. I didn't look them up but it's my guess everyone who wants a Trump bible has one.  Promo at 110% wink wink nudge nudge...

Rare,  hard to find items desired by your specific market, priced appropriately,  easily discoverable via key words (in order) and accompanied by an attractive listing don't need promoting.  eBay gives them a global audience just the same.

   If yours is one of 6 or less available it's as good as "seen" by the market.  You can amp up attention without promoting by creating your own group of followers in your specific niche. 

Finding and listing the correct items is more important (and tricky) than paying for better placement.  

[intimewithmusic]

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

"Also doesn't help when you get a buyer to your listing and the first thing they see is something promoted that's cheaper."

 New change on dot com.

Buyer completes a purchase but finds it at a lower price and reverses the purchase. (Possibly from the saturation of "eBay similars" on the listing's page you pointed out. )

eBay then advises the seller of the situation and offers the seller the opportunity to match the lower price or lose the sale.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

"Also doesn't help when you get a buyer to your listing and the first thing they see is something promoted that's cheaper."

 New change on dot com.

Buyer completes a purchase but finds it at a lower price and reverses the purchase. (Possibly from the saturation of "eBay similars" on the listing's page you pointeds out. )

eBay then advises the seller of the situation and offers the seller the opportunity to match the lower price or lose the sale.

---

@intimewithmusic 

Was this a published change or something you discovered entirely accidentally?

And how does it doesn't it apply to Canadian sellers?

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

Yes I'm noticing this for stuff I'm selling that is heavily listed out there, this is a good example look at all the "competition"!!!

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/204785236373  

In this particular item's case I'm laughing because I'm the lowest guy on the block, it might even help the biddng on it.

There is an awful LOT of other people's stuff, mine is scattered throughout, and a chunk at the end. 

I will probably have to someday sit down, well caffenated and figure out if I need to change how I list stuff.

I've so far not had the someones offering it cheaper scenario, that's a new one to me!!!

[ricarmic]

Generally speaking I do not promote anything newly listed.

Generally speaking I more heavily promote "older" listed items.

I do have multi-item listings that have serious competition out there. I have a modestly expensive promoted rate on them but I don't fiddle with it much, at least not in the recent past. This translates into lower sales of them, but I have only so much supply so I'm not going to "discount" (as in pay more in fees) them any lower than I have now. I suspect my competition uses the high margins to more heavily promote them, and they may not often be "doing it for a living" which provides more discounting room too.

[intimewithmusic]

@ricarmic 

"Looks like I'll have to try some top secret experiments."

Here's an experiment I haven't seen tried:

Awhile back I noticed  @lotzofuniquegoodies  sold an item I have.  (photo attached) It's not my niche (my daughter's stuff) so I saved his listing for later use.  He knows what he's doing.. What are friend's for right? ha ha.

As I read through these posts everyone seems to experiment on their own with PL. Why not get 3 or 4 sellers who sell in a similar niche  like you stamp folks, or you cd folks etc to list exactly the same item with 0%, 5%, 10% and 15% PL rates.  Then report in as the items sell.  Being the item and it's features are close to the same the PL rate would speak out. 

Just a thought.  I don't think it would be too  hard to organize.

PS.  Lotz, what was your PL rate on this?  Please and thanks... ;>}

[intimewithmusic]

eBay or Windows wednesday's update seems to be causing a problem adding the photo so I'll try adding it here. 

[intimewithmusic]

This is a new USA specific rollout  and it was reported by a platform news provider on May 5, 2024.  I don't know if it's an experiment or if the plan is to be inccorporated into eBay Canada. I think if it's successful it wouldn't be hard to add the "feature" to our platform. 

--------------------------

Quote "A seller encountered a never-before-seen issue that appears to be an attempt by eBay to avert cancellations requested by buyers who find the same item they just purchased at a lower price. Others responding to the seller's thread believe it may be a new feature eBay is testing.

The seller said that immediately after paying, the buyer requested a cancellation. When the seller opened the eBay app to proceed with the cancellation, they encountered a pop-up window.

"The pop-up says that the buyer was shown a better deal and that the buyer wanted to cancel because they "found a better price,"" the seller explained. The seller was given two options: either cancel the sale, or refund the buyer the difference and continue with the sale.

The seller chose "agree to new terms of sale," and eBay automatically refunded the buyer a portion of the sale. The seller supplied a screenshot on the eBay discussion board post.

But sellers have long complained that eBay's practice of displaying cheaper items to buyers in checkout leads to cancellations over price. And as sellers in the thread pointed out, it is rarely an apples-to-apples comparison. It would make far more sense to show a buyer items that are complementary to the item they've just purchased rather than feeding into buyer's remorse the purchaser may be experiencing.

If this is indeed a new feature eBay is rolling out, some sellers might welcome it as an opportunity to hold on to a sale rather than deal with a cancellation, even if it's not the full price they had expected. For others, it would be a dealbreaker - some sellers said they would choose to not only cancel the order, but would block the buyer from purchasing from them again.

Let us know if you've seen this feature as a buyer or a seller.

Update 5/7/2024: The original poster said the order they rescued from being cancelled would not import into their shipping software: "I believe the shipping software sees the item as being cancelled or refunded, so it will not import. I need to manually import this sale to the shipping software and then manually scan the tracking details into eBay."

An eBay moderator responded to the thread today as follows: "We have reached out to a few teams to see what info we can get on this, and share this thread with them as well so they can see the feedback everyone has provided so far." :End of quote

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

I think this is directly relevant to your post because changes to our platform are generally rolled out first in the US.  the progress can be followed currently on at least 3 podcasts I follow including eBay for Sellers, Galaxy CDs and the Selling On eBay Radio Show.  

[ricarmic]

I think something that murks the waters is that once someone buys ONE thing that's promoted, we pay the promoted rates for EVERYTHING else they buy for the next 30 days that is also promoted. 

I think in many cases they would've purchased the subsequent items without the promotion but we'll never know.

About 50% of my sales are to repeat customers, and some of my "selling features" keep them coming back. That's why I use time based promotions, no sense promoting something that is more likely to sell unpromoted if possible.

At least for me, I think we already can figure that the higher the percentage, the higher the number of impressions, but does that work its way into sales?

My wee promoted auctions results are simply getting more views, I've still yet to have a sale come from a promoted auction....

To my mind the value the promoted rate brings is finding new repeat customers, at least in my world.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

This is a new USA specific rollout  and it was reported by a platform news provider on May 5, 2024.  I don't know if it's an experiment or if the plan is to be inccorporated into eBay Canada. I think if it's successful it wouldn't be hard to add the "feature" to our platform. 

--------------------------

Quote "A seller encountered a never-before-seen issue that appears to be an attempt by eBay to avert cancellations requested by buyers who find the same item they just purchased at a lower price. Others responding to the seller's thread believe it may be a new feature eBay is testing.

The seller said that immediately after paying, the buyer requested a cancellation. When the seller opened the eBay app to proceed with the cancellation, they encountered a pop-up window.

"The pop-up says that the buyer was shown a better deal and that the buyer wanted to cancel because they "found a better price,"" the seller explained. The seller was given two options: either cancel the sale, or refund the buyer the difference and continue with the sale.

The seller chose "agree to new terms of sale," and eBay automatically refunded the buyer a portion of the sale. The seller supplied a screenshot on the eBay discussion board post.

But sellers have long complained that eBay's practice of displaying cheaper items to buyers in checkout leads to cancellations over price. And as sellers in the thread pointed out, it is rarely an apples-to-apples comparison. It would make far more sense to show a buyer items that are complementary to the item they've just purchased rather than feeding into buyer's remorse the purchaser may be experiencing.

If this is indeed a new feature eBay is rolling out, some sellers might welcome it as an opportunity to hold on to a sale rather than deal with a cancellation, even if it's not the full price they had expected. For others, it would be a dealbreaker - some sellers said they would choose to not only cancel the order, but would block the buyer from purchasing from them again.

Let us know if you've seen this feature as a buyer or a seller.

Update 5/7/2024: The original poster said the order they rescued from being cancelled would not import into their shipping software: "I believe the shipping software sees the item as being cancelled or refunded, so it will not import. I need to manually import this sale to the shipping software and then manually scan the tracking details into eBay."

An eBay moderator responded to the thread today as follows: "We have reached out to a few teams to see what info we can get on this, and share this thread with them as well so they can see the feedback everyone has provided so far." :End of quote

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

I think this is directly relevant to your post because changes to our platform are generally rolled out first in the US.  the progress can be followed currently on at least 3 podcasts I follow including eBay for Sellers, Galaxy CDs and the Selling On eBay Radio Show.  

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@intimewithmusic 

Definitely something that could be an option for some sellers vs losing a sale. And as long as it works as it should. I have found posts in the past where buyers have tried to cancel an order after item has been paid for and shipped. Leaves the seller in a major quandry because it is so difficult to recover any losses...once item is on the way. It "could" be a solution until it turns into a game of price match across the entire ebay platform. Also would depend on how long it takes before we see on ca. If it doesn't come to ca in a timely manner it would be just another unfair disadvantage for Canadian sellers. 

-Lotz

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

eBay or Windows wednesday's update seems to be causing a problem adding the photo so I'll try adding it here. 

---

@intimewithmusic 

eBay has been doing tinkering under the hood with sending/attaching images and links to both discussions and buyers as of late. As I recall item was promoted but sold at full pop. Unable to see the rate due to the age of listing. It sold back in February. 

[intimewithmusic]

  I totally understand your approach to promotions. My niche is sort of halfway between your exclusivity and someone who primarily sells CDs. 

   Basically a CD seller has a widget only going back to 1982 compressing his market into a short period.  Sales depend on market profiles and the total cost including shipping. In that case it's a battle to get to the top of the page. 

    From what I understand your "widgets"  go all the way back to 1840. that's a 184 year old haystack.  Most buyers need something different. Most collectors probably have stamp albums or collections that are at least half empty. You have to love that! Your customers search for items produced even before they were alive. Out of interest I googled it;

" On 1 May 1840, the Penny Black, the first adhesive postage stamp, was issued in the United Kingdom. Within three years postage stamps were introduced in Switzerland and Brazil, a little later in the United States, and by 1860, they were in 90 countries around the world."

  My niche is somewhere in between. Most music memorabilia was generated after WW1 (1918).  My customers are mostly under 50 and were alive at the time of production which is what creates the sizzle.  Most of my items were produced in small quantities relative to CDs but similar to collectible stamps. I have to figure out how to market each item and am frequently surprised at what is hot and what's not. 

  I should probably try auctions again.  As you know only certain items are successful. Probably something like 1 in  5000 cds or 1 in 1000 memorabilia items would work. When it comes to serious stamp or coin collectors if you have the desirable widget you have a captive market.  No point is wasting profit promoting the listing. That said your shipping cost is so low the PL rate on shipping is marginal compared to the PL rate on shipping out a drum set. 

[intimewithmusic]

Thank you!

You are very good at listing a huge variety of items. Twice a year  in May & Nov I focus on things outside my niche that I have no experience with. It helps renew enthusiasim by changing the "grind". 

*The photo wouldn't attach at all to the original post. I tried 3 times. Funny  I had no problem putting it in the reply.

[intimewithmusic]

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

"Definitely something that could be an option for some sellers vs losing a sale. And as long as it works as it should."

This is another change that could easily be exploited by unscrupulous buyers. For example a buyer checks out paying $100 for a widget. Then they cancel under this new feature.  eBay presents the seller with an ultimatum or "loaded offer like you can accept $75 instead or else..." 

You've already gone to the expense and work attracting the buyer to your store. You sold the item based on price, your listing and your reputaion but even before purchasing the buyer finds it cheaper. Then, based on your better item/service/feedback shipping time etc they buy it knowing eBay will back the retraction. They cancel your $100 and offer you $75 instead. It's  based on a different item from a different seller with who know's what deficencies? Pretty sure this whole thing will be monitored by "bots".

eBay then forces you to accept the lower offer or lose the sale with no penalty to the buyer for cancelling a completed order. 

Seems to me a big waste ot time. I think an offer is an offer, a sale is a sale. Neither should be retroactive.  Depending on the item I might be tempted to decline eBay's ultimatum,  remove "Best Offer" and possibly raise the item price but I would call the bluff and not block the buyer.  

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

"Definitely something that could be an option for some sellers vs losing a sale. And as long as it works as it should."

This is another change that could easily be exploited by unscrupulous buyers. For example a buyer checks out paying $100 for a widget. Then they cancel under this new feature.  eBay presents the seller with an ultimatum or "loaded offer like you can accept $75 instead or else..." 

You've already gone to the expense and work attracting the buyer to your store. You sold the item based on price, your listing and your reputaion but even before purchasing the buyer finds it cheaper. Then, based on your better item/service/feedback shipping time etc they buy it knowing they will then cancel and offer you $75 instead based on an item with who know's what deficencies. Pretty sure this whole thing will be monitored by "bots". eBay then forces you to accept the lower offer or lose the sale with no penalty to the buyer for cancelling a completed order. 

Seems to me like a big waste ot time. I think an offer is an offer and a sale is a sale. Neither should be retroactive. 

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@intimewithmusic 

Very likely as you suggest. Buyers taking advantage of a "new" feature that had the best of intentions. Same thing happened with being able to send offers to someone that popped on by...Gotten to the point where they are either buyers looking for best available price or the competition. In the olden days of eBay clicking on commit to buy or putting in a bid were just that....a commitment. Just like seller was responsible for listing accurately. For safety sake this message will self destruct before it gets viewed by all....10, 9, 8.........BooM!!!!!

[flipistics]

This feels messy to me, and would likely result in increased returns as there's a very good chance some buyers would be confused by the process.