Starting January 2025, Ebay Canada to require SIN number for all sellers with more than 30 sales?

[joycroe_0]

I was reading this article on Ebay and it states that as of January 2025, anyone with over 30 sales will have to provide a SIN number. 
https://www.ebay.ca/help/account/regulatory/sales-reporting/canada-digital-sales-reporting?id=5476#s...

It seems like quite a drastic update and I'm surprised more people haven't been talking about it.

[reallynicestamps]

Before you panic that the evil gubbermint is going to sell your children into slavery and jail you for tax evasion it might be worthwhile figuring out exactly how much tax you will be liable for.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individu...

And keep in mind that this is AFTER DEDUCTIONS, like eBay fees, insurance and refunds, not to mention procurement  costs.

And that you have roughly $17,000 in deductions from your gross income as normal deductions, before your business deductions.

And that those rates are for each tranche.

If you earned more than $253,000 (the highest rated tranche) you are not paying 33% on your entire income

-> only on the amount over $253K.

[byto253]

I just think the "side hustle" and gig business is getting big enough that the government can't just keep ignoring it.  Though the requirement for 3rd party companies to store SIN numbers, likely outside of Canada, is a bit of an over correction.   

At least folks selling stuff around the house have a clear guideline now, keep it under 30 items and $2,800.. if casual sellers like that are even aware.  That should be information clearly outlined up front for anyone that is starting to sell items... but I will not hold my breath on that.  

[sin-n-dex]

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@byto253 wrote:

I just think the "side hustle" and gig business is getting big enough that the government can't just keep ignoring it.  Though the requirement for 3rd party companies to store SIN numbers, likely outside of Canada, is a bit of an over correction.   

At least folks selling stuff around the house have a clear guideline now, keep it under 30 items and $2,800.. if casual sellers like that are even aware.  That should be information clearly outlined up front for anyone that is starting to sell items... but I will not hold my breath on that.  

---

I agree with the $2800 threshold, but the 30 items is a bit restrictive. If I'm cleaning out my house (because I'm a bit of a hoarder), and deciding to get rid of lots of things, I can sell more than 30 CDs, DVDs and Books, and won't come close to $2800. It's going to be tough for people to do a T2125 if they've met the reporting threshold on household junk.

Right now my household junk is mixed in with regular eBay sales, but I figure I can find enough things to write off the total that if I have to pay tax on a $5 DVD it's not such a big deal because I wrote off a meal or travel to source items. I write off 25% of some travel expenses since I source whenever I'm out.

C.

[recped]

If you are simply clearing out "houshold junk" you are almost certainly selling at a loss from your original cost. One form to fill out and zero extra taxes to pay.

Not to suggest you are of the folloowing type but on the .com boards every year there are sellers freaking out about taxes and they often claim they are "just clearing out the house". When you look at their recent sales you find they have sold a dozen of the latest iphone model with at least some of them listed as "new" or "new-open box".

I can tell you one group of Canadians (and it's the majority) that are happy about this. That is the "wage-slaves" where every penny is reported, tax is deducted at source and deductions are slim or none.

[sin-n-dex]

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@recped wrote:

If you are simply clearing out "houshold junk" you are almost certainly selling at a loss from your original cost. One form to fill out and zero extra taxes to pay.

Not to suggest you are of the folloowing type but on the .com boards every year there are sellers freaking out about taxes and they often claim they are "just clearing out the house". When you look at their recent sales you find they have sold a dozen of the latest iphone model with at least some of them listed as "new" or "new-open box".

I can tell you one group of Canadians (and it's the majority) that are happy about this. That is the "wage-slaves" where every penny is reported, tax is deducted at source and deductions are slim or none.

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I do follow the dot com boards. I actually was there for about 8 years before the CP Strike, when I came over here since I figured on the Canada board people would be talking about it. (It wasn't really news on the dot com board until people started posting about not being able to ship to Canada, that was two weeks in, and discussed like a big revelation).

I didn't actually check anyone's sales when they were telling us they were "clearing junk", but we do see posts regularly about members being suspended who were "clearing junk" (not a thread about taxes) and other posters check the sales and see new appliances and such being sold. One person even sold 46 new razors in boxes, and eBay wanted receipts. That's where I seem to remember the "junk" statement was a lie because newbie posters don't realize we can look at what they've sold.

My household junk really is junk, and I actually donate most stuff or give it to friends rather than to sell it anyway (doesn't seem worth the hassle to be listing DVDs, just saying I could be doing that and make 30 sales and have to report it if I did). I do get that saying it's household junk is often a lie to make it look like selling at a loss to avoid paying taxes.

I'm a wage slave where every penny is reported, and since I started having significant sales (in 2013) I was self-reporting my income. I heard what happened to the powersellers a few years earlier and I don't need the stress of dealing with audits and such when I can legitimately make deductions and reduce the taxes owed. It's a lot harder to do that once you've been caught cheating on your taxes.

C.

[byto253]

Yes, the 30 items is out of synch with the dollar threshold.   It takes 112 $25 items to get to $2,800, the 30 makes no sense. 30 items would need to average around $93 to make the $2,800.   I don't see that the CRA is going to want to be swamped by reports on 30 sales for $400.  

I can just imagine the policy meetings (many meetings), and draft papers, about the calculation/rationalization for $2,800 and 30 came about.   

[recped]

Why would they be swamped, eBay will be submitting electronically and compared to the number of T4's/T5's etc that are filed annually the eBay ones will be a drop in a very big bucket.

[jimbo_kw]

Since receiving the notice from eBay last week, I have been researching this topic every day. Today I discovered this thread and have read all the replies,

I inherited a stamp collection from my father. I decided to continue the hobby when I retired, I also purchased massive quantities to stamp collectables from auctions. All of this became my personal property. I have been processing the items ever since. This is a hobby not a business. There is no motive for profit. I want to trade my stamps for other stamps that I collect, like they did in the old days of trading. None of the money I have ever received has gone into my personal use funds. The money is kept separate from my personal funds and only used to purchase stamps and pay for expenses of the hobby. I do keep good records and can prove this statement.

The CRA rules for personal use property (PUP) and listed personal property (LPP) say:

 LPP includes all or any part of any interest in or any right to the following properties:

prints, etchings, drawings, paintings, sculptures, or other similar works of art

jewellery

rare folios, rare manuscripts, or rare books

stamps coins

The sale of these items creates capital gains or loses not income.

To calculate this gain or loss, follow these rules:

If the adjusted cost base (ACB) of the property is less than $1,000, its ACB is considered to be $1,000.

If the proceeds of disposition are less than $1,000, the proceeds of disposition are considered to be $1,000.

If both the ACB and the proceeds of disposition are $1,000 or less, you do not have a capital gain or a capital loss.

I have never sold an item for over $1000.

So here is my question?  My do I have to register my SIN when I don’t have any “income”.

Helpful comments are appreciated.

[mrdutch1001]

When you have reached either $2800 in eBay sales or 30 transactions on eBay, you will receive notification from eBay to submit whatever it is they require.

[recped]

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@jimbo_kw wrote:

So here is my question?  My do I have to register my SIN when I don’t have any “income”.

Helpful comments are appreciated.

---

Neither eBay nor CRA know what the source of your gross income is other that it is from the sale of goods.

FYI - If you sell ONE thing on eBay you have "income", when you file your annual tax return you will show CRA that you income (revenue) is from selling personal items , possibly at a loss so your TAXABLE income could be zero. eBay has no way to determine that.

[ricarmic]

@jimbo_kw 

You have about as many items running as me (a full time seller).

I think instead of looking for advice here, you would be very well served to talk with an accountant so that you are sure you're doing/recording/reporting things correctly from someone with the proper expertise.

[marnotom!]

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@jimbo_kw wrote:

So here is my question?  My do I have to register my SIN when I don’t have any “income”.

Helpful comments are appreciated.

---

My understanding is that the SIN is required so that eBay can submit the information that CRA requires to produce the "paperwork" that eBay will send to you and that will be stored electronically by CRA.  It's up to you to justify to CRA the monies you generated through your eBay sale(s) as something other than "income".

I think we have to accept (though not necessarily embrace) the fact that online sales and gigs are going to follow a different set of rules than casual sales made in person.  Some countries' eBay sites make distinctions between B2C (business to consumer) and C2C (consumer to consumer) sales because the laws in those countries' sites make those distinctions for online sales, but that doesn't appear to be the case for Canada.

I strongly suggest that you consult an accountant or some sort of tax specialist for accurate advice if you're finding this worrying.

[joycroe_0]

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@jimbo_kw wrote:

Since receiving the notice from eBay last week, I have been researching this topic every day. Today I discovered this thread and have read all the replies,

I inherited a stamp collection from my father. I decided to continue the hobby when I retired, I also purchased massive quantities to stamp collectables from auctions. All of this became my personal property. I have been processing the items ever since. This is a hobby not a business. There is no motive for profit. I want to trade my stamps for other stamps that I collect, like they did in the old days of trading. None of the money I have ever received has gone into my personal use funds. The money is kept separate from my personal funds and only used to purchase stamps and pay for expenses of the hobby. I do keep good records and can prove this statement.

The CRA rules for personal use property (PUP) and listed personal property (LPP) say:

 LPP includes all or any part of any interest in or any right to the following properties:

prints, etchings, drawings, paintings, sculptures, or other similar works of art

jewellery

rare folios, rare manuscripts, or rare books

stamps coins

The sale of these items creates capital gains or loses not income.

To calculate this gain or loss, follow these rules:

If the adjusted cost base (ACB) of the property is less than $1,000, its ACB is considered to be $1,000.

If the proceeds of disposition are less than $1,000, the proceeds of disposition are considered to be $1,000.

If both the ACB and the proceeds of disposition are $1,000 or less, you do not have a capital gain or a capital loss.

I have never sold an item for over $1000.

So here is my question?  My do I have to register my SIN when I don’t have any “income”.

Helpful comments are appreciated.

---

I have the same concerns as you. I'm a hobbyist and would use Ebay to help fund the hobby. I've looked at the Tax template that sellers have to use and you have to provide the exact number that you paid for the "inventory", which would prove to be a logistics nightmare for any long term collector who is merely selling as a hobby. Any long time collectors who sell some stuff to help fund their collecting journey don't view their items as "inventory" or keep track of the cost of every single item they've collected over 30+ years.

Many personal use sellers have looked into this in regards to how they're supposed to prove this and the Canadian government is providing no clear answer. Apparently one hobbyist looked into this and they told him that they're now viewing collectibles like stamps and trading cards akin to investments that aren't able to be claimed as personal use.

There's a ton of confusion. This is going to send A LOT of hobbyists offline I believe and is going to be very detrimental to the health of the hobby overall.

Probably isn't going to be worth the accounting nightmare or the responsibility of having to hire an accountant for selling 2-3$ stamps and trading cards anymore.

[mrdutch1001]

"This is going to send A LOT of hobbyists offline"

NOT at all! >...albeit it may send them off eBay!

"and is going to be very detrimental to the health of the hobby overall." > NOT at all!

Countless hobbyists don't even use eBay at all > they use Facebook Marketplace as there are hobby groups that serve hobbyists all round the world(wherein private arrangements can be made for payment and for shipping.)

[sin-n-dex]

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@jimbo_kw wrote:

Since receiving the notice from eBay last week, I have been researching this topic every day. Today I discovered this thread and have read all the replies,

I inherited a stamp collection from my father. I decided to continue the hobby when I retired, I also purchased massive quantities to stamp collectables from auctions. All of this became my personal property. I have been processing the items ever since. This is a hobby not a business. There is no motive for profit. I want to trade my stamps for other stamps that I collect, like they did in the old days of trading. None of the money I have ever received has gone into my personal use funds. The money is kept separate from my personal funds and only used to purchase stamps and pay for expenses of the hobby. I do keep good records and can prove this statement.

The CRA rules for personal use property (PUP) and listed personal property (LPP) say:

 LPP includes all or any part of any interest in or any right to the following properties:

prints, etchings, drawings, paintings, sculptures, or other similar works of art

jewellery

rare folios, rare manuscripts, or rare books

stamps coins

The sale of these items creates capital gains or loses not income.

To calculate this gain or loss, follow these rules:

If the adjusted cost base (ACB) of the property is less than $1,000, its ACB is considered to be $1,000.

If the proceeds of disposition are less than $1,000, the proceeds of disposition are considered to be $1,000.

If both the ACB and the proceeds of disposition are $1,000 or less, you do not have a capital gain or a capital loss.

I have never sold an item for over $1000.

So here is my question?  My do I have to register my SIN when I don’t have any “income”.

Helpful comments are appreciated.

---

You have almost 5000 items listed. CRA is not going to believe it's a hobby. You will need to produce records to substantiate that.

C.

[jimbo_kw]

Thank you for your input. My research tells me that CRA deems stamps as LPP listed personal property and the saale of such items becomes capital gains or losses. If someone can show me if that is not true that info would be appreciated.  

"To calculate this gain or loss, follow these rules:

If the adjusted cost base (ACB) of the property is less than $1,000, its ACB is considered to be $1,000.

If the proceeds of disposition are less than $1,000, the proceeds of disposition are considered to be $1,000.

If both the ACB and the proceeds of disposition are $1,000 or less, you do not have a capital gain or a capital loss. I have never sold and items for over $1000." It is easy to prove that I haven't sold an item for over $1000. Also, it is only logical that I have not paid for an item for over $1000 as why would I sell it for $5.99? 

So if I have to I list every item sold on the T1-2023 Capital Gains form. Each it would have a ACB of $1000 and POD of $1000 with a capital gain of $0.

[joycroe_0]

I believe you're citing the old guidelines. Things have changed since Trudeau passed the new Digital Reporting laws. Now everything over 30 sales on Ebay needs to be reported and accounted for.  Back in the day they wouldn't bother over such a pittance, but now with AI technology it's super easy to roll up on anyone who doesn't comply.

It strikes me as a very extreme policy and surprises me that this hasn't created more of an uproar. There was MAJOR backlash when the Biden admin came up with the 600$ reporting threshold to the point where the law was pushed back a year. Of course 600$ sounds pretty generous in comparison to the Trudeau government wanting its paws on anything over 30 meager sales.😌  But the Canadian people are polite and don't seem to take issue with such a policy.

Definitlely going to revitalize face to face transactions and make services like FB Marketplace and Craigslist explode in popularity.💡

[mrdutch1001]

"FB Marketplace and Craigslist explode in popularity." Those sites have been utilized for many years already...but unfortunately scammers and fraud abound there just as much as eBay thus rendering those sites every bit as risky as any Marketplace Facillitator site. And of course sites like FB Marketplace & Craigslist have more than their share of time wasters, no-shows,etc,etc... so little may be gained by heading over to those sites.

One also must realize that even though "There was MAJOR backlash when the Biden admin came up with the 600$ reporting threshold "...very little chatter these days as most sellers did what they needed to do:accept,adapt,adjust and carry on!...Most are still selling on eBay and similar sites...

[joycroe_0]

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@mrdutch1001 wrote:

"This is going to send A LOT of hobbyists offline"

NOT at all! >...albeit it may send them off eBay!

"and is going to be very detrimental to the health of the hobby overall." > NOT at all!

Countless hobbyists don't even use eBay at all > they use Facebook Marketplace as there are hobby groups that serve hobbyists all round the world(wherein private arrangements can be made for payment and for shipping.)

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@mrdutch1001 wrote:

"This is going to send A LOT of hobbyists offline"

NOT at all! >...albeit it may send them off eBay!

"and is going to be very detrimental to the health of the hobby overall." > NOT at all!

Countless hobbyists don't even use eBay at all > they use Facebook Marketplace as there are hobby groups that serve hobbyists all round the world(wherein private arrangements can be made for payment and for shipping.)

---

Interesting. That's a good point. I'll definitely have to start exploring more of these avenues.

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[reallynicestamps]

You declare the dollar value of your sales.

Then you take your deductions.

Which are those adjusted gains and losses (as well as any fees and other expenses).

KISS

But the important part is that you declare your gross income.

Then pay taxes only on the taxable income.