The buyer did not recognize the transaction

[travis7s]

This morning I got notice that a dispute has been opened against me from via the buyer's payment provider. The only reason I have "The buyer did not recognize the transaction". Am I really on the hook for fraudulent purchases? Note that I am on Managed Payments now and not Paypal.

Unfortunately I cannot provide proof of delivery as it was an untracked item. I'm not too concerned about the loss but has anyone dealt with this before?

[esclyons]

yes it is basically a charge back, can be for many reasons, usually the person claims that they didn't authorize the purchase.. I know with paypal if you could prove delivery you would be covered with seller protection, but with managed payments and no tracking, i would guess this will be a lost cause for you..

[ricarmic]

If you still have the buyers phone number, call them.

As far as I know you're going to lose because it is untracked (which is usually the case for me too)

I've had folks buy two items of the same price and think they've been double charged etc.

I live in a "safer" (stamp) world, I've had good luck recovering the $$ from these situations. The last one the buyer sent me a cheque for the original amount plus the $20 card charge to clear things up (they mistakenly used an expired card which for some reason showed up as unauthorized). In other cases they just had me re-invoice them.

[marnotom!]

Perhaps the buyer didn’t recognize the transaction because this was the first purchase they’d made from a seller using Managed Payments? 🤷‍♂️

[travis7s]

Its possible, the whole thing is quite suspicious. I've actually done quite a bit of investigating so far. (is it worth my time? probably not but I've decided its in the best interest of all sellers to not let scammers and bad customers off scott free)

• Shipping address is to a particular site of a campground kind of in the middle of nowhere. I got in touch with said campground and they say that particular site doesn't exist and that mail doesn't get delivered like that.
• Buyer is using a fake last name. I know this because I did give them a call and got their voicemail where they say their real name. Unfortunately on MP all the payment information is totally invisible so I can't verify anything. Also it seems that ebay now blocks out their email from me as well.
• The message on the phone sounded like a kid to me, although the only person I can find on FB with that name in that city does not look like a kid. If it was a kid, I could see how it would be plausible for their parents to not know and dispute the charge.

All in all, no progress made, we'll see if they respond at all. I predict I will be giving a refund and getting a neg for my trouble. 🙂

[reallynicestamps]

If it was addressed to a non-existent address, the item would be Undeliverable and eventually would come back to you.

The buyer may have tried to open a Dispute on eBay but eBay's Money Back Guarantee does not apply to Undeliverable shipments.

However.

Since you are shipping without tracking, you lose if the buyer opens a Not Delivered dispute.

Period.

And we pretty well all do it, because it is less expensive to lose the occasional Dispute * than it is to lose customers because our shipping costs are so high.

About the "fake" last name. In all 50+ years I have been married, I have never had the same last name as my spouse. And my sister not only has a different last name than her spouse, but her kids have the name of their father.  Families are complicated.

Some people get their kid to record the voicemail, because it's cute. Even on cell phones.

*Whether the item has been delivered or not. Which you do not know because the item was untracked.

[reallynicestamps]

tyler@ebay 

Can a buyer still make a chargeback when the seller is in Managed Payments?

Can the seller end the chargeback by showing Delivery?

[ypdc_dennis]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Can a buyer still make a chargeback when the seller is in Managed Payments?

Can the seller end the chargeback by showing Delivery?

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If the chargeback is through their credit card company the Buyer can always do a chargeback. eBay's Managed Payments has to defend (just like PayPal) to the credit card company that the item was properly bought and delivered.  What I am not sure of is how Managed Payments assigns responsibility and costs for chargebacks lost.

-..-

[marnotom!]

If this were a transaction facilitated through PayPal, online-viewable proof of shipment to the address on the transaction details page would have sufficed, but that’s hard to obtain for unauthorized use chargebacks, so delivery to that address would also be acceptable.

Is Managed Payments different in this aspect?

[travis7s]

Based on what I have heard from eBay, a MP chargeback can be reversed with proof of delivery.

[pjcdn2005]

That's what I've read as well for unauthorized use credit card chargebacks.  If the seller is in MP, proof of delivery is required.  If they are still having their money processed by Paypal, proof of shipment OR proof of delivery is required.  In both cases the proof has to show that the item was sent to the payment address.

[travis7s]

Honestly if they would have opened an INR on ebay I would have refunded no questions asked, same if they would have specified "Not Delivered" in the dispute. (the dispute was opened beyond the ebay money back guarantee timeline) The reality is almost all signs point to a child ordering a videogame with their parent's credit card and the unaware parents disputed the charge. I actually have no idea how an ebay MP order displays on a credit card statement but I imagine it could look weird.

[indiansummernights]

It displays as "PAYPAL *EBAY CA". It had me confused for a second when I first saw it. If I hadn't had looked at my PayPal invoice for the item that I purchased, I probably would not have recognized the transaction when I saw it on my card.

[marnotom!]

Which begs the question, what dies the payee ID look like if the buyer doesn’t use PayPal? “Aidyn” instead of “PayPal,” perhaps?

[tyler@ebay]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

tyler@ebay 

Can a buyer still make a chargeback when the seller is in Managed Payments?

Can the seller end the chargeback by showing Delivery?

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Hi @reallynicestamps - yes, buyers can still dispute charges with their financial institution or card provider - regardless of the payment processor. 

Once activated in managed payments, if a dispute arises we will notify you and ask you to provide any information we can use to advocate on your behalf. A delivery scan won't always win your dispute (it would depend on the nature of the dispute itself), but can help! More detail about the kinds of disputes, how we handle them and the best ways to protect yourself here. 

Thanks!

_____

Edit to add required disclaimers:

As someone who is not an expert on managed payments I may not be able to address your question in its entirety. If you have been notified to register for managed payments you are able to request a call back from a payments-trained teammate by accessing any of the Help Pages related to payments and using the 'Have us call you' feature at the bottom of the page.

The information provided is accurate as of today's date (October 6 2020) but may become outdated in the future. If you are reading this at a later date please consider checking the Help Pages or request a call back from a managed payments teammate who can provide the most up to date information.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

This is going to be one of the worst things about managed payments.

For the fees I pay to Paypal, I'm at least covered for Not Authorized transactions, even if Paypal loses the dispute, I still am not on the hook for the transaction, Paypal refunds me. All I need to provide is some sort of reasonable proof of shipping (not tracking).

For example, because I ship lettermail, I send all buyers a stock shipping confirmation message when their package is shipped out. This includes a picture of their actual package at my Canada Post. (Alternatively, a person could get the Canada Post clerk to stamp lettermail with the date, and take a picture of that to keep on file).

Having a screen shot of that is enough to cover me from Not Authorized transactions.

If Managed Payments doesn't offer the same level of seller coverage, odds are I'd be out a few hundred dollars every year depending on how unlucky I am. That's a huge increased cost.

[femmefan1946]

Having a screen shot of that is enough to cover me from Not Authorized transactions.

I don't think it does.

Paypal does accept proof of shipping in some circumstances, but that means they want to see the tracking number of the shipment which shows Acceptance even if it does not show Delivery.

Have you ever actually had a picture of an envelope accepted as proof of shipping?

[msmaggie060]

Not necessarily. I had a not authorized transaction opened on me through PayPal about 3 years ago. Item was mailed Lettermail and I only had a post office receipt showing I shipped to the same zip code. I didn’t even send a copy of the receipt, just wrote that I had it and gave my shipping details and mentioned feedback from the buyer. That info was deemed good enough because I won the dispute.

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Having a screen shot of that is enough to cover me from Not Authorized transactions.

I don't think it does.

Paypal does accept proof of shipping in some circumstances, but that means they want to see the tracking number of the shipment which shows Acceptance even if it does not show Delivery.

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[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Yes. I've been covered for 3 cases in the last month or so (bad sample size, I've only had 4 all year).

That doesn't mean Paypal wins the case with the financial institution. Apparently those are difficult to win. But Paypal did cover me in those cases with that information.

Maybe a handful of cases a year might only be 100-200 dollars in lost revenue with the change over, but I think it's a fair aspect to consider when weighing the economic benefits or detriments of the change over. (Not that any seller has a choice long term.)

(I replied to this and the site conked out, so I had to re-write my reply. If somehow two re-written replies pop up to the same message....that's why.)

[retroman_studios]

tyler@ebay 

The PayPal receipt you get is rather cryptic on MP. I was confused for a moment too when I first saw it. I thought that maybe eBay had charged me some final value fees in mistake. Then I realized it was my recent purchase. See attached screenshot, which shows the eBay Purchase, but note that the item line simply says "authorization to ebay". Well, I think that's gonna be a red flag to many folks. 

Can't the boys in IT at least put a better description in that box? Like an item number? It was like that in the past.