eBay

cumos55 · ‎02-17-2013

There has been a lot of discussion with respect to third part insurance.

Here are links to

(1) Shipsurance --- Link to

http://www.shipsurance.com/

(2) U-Pic Insurance --- link to

http://www.u-pic.com/

Are there other third party insurance companies? and if so links would help

-------------------------------------------------

Google these names and find more information on the internet.

Considerations

(1) Cost

(2) Coverage

(3) Acceptable countries.

(4) Countries they will not insure.... and that could include certain locations in the US (a surprise) and perhaps even Canada

(5) Claims process...... documentation required to file a claim....

The important thing here is to read carefully... several times.... study their FAQ.... and then internet information.

and if you still have questions ask the company......

I have no personal experience with third-party insurance.... However, there are many here who have used this form of insurance....

Perhaps the most important thing to do is read, and read more... ask questions..

From personal experience I spent two months of reading, and understanding, before I sold my first item on eBay... and used Paypal.....and that was 10 years ago... Things have changed ... and there is a lot more to read today....

Each insurance company has its pluses and negatives.... study the company information and look for what they do say... and perhaps more important.... what one company says and the other does not say

pierrelebel · ‎02-17-2013

By far the largest insurer in Canada for collectibles (stamps, coins, etc...) is Hugh Wood:

http://www.hwcanada.com/

However, they work best on an annual contract for dealers with substantial inventory.

pocomocomputing · ‎02-17-2013

A branch of shipsurance is www.insurepost.com. It is the same as shipsurance.com except it allows you to create an account to save on filling out your information all the time (name address etcetera) on the shipsurance site if you purchase insurance from shipsurance often.

pocomocomputing · ‎02-17-2013

One thing to consider with third party insurance is how to supply "proof of mailing" the item. A old topic was started before Christmas on the subject and forgotten by most.

If you read the Insurepost terms here

http://www.insurepost.com/terms.asp

how do you meet the "proof of shipping" part of the agreement. The terms are orientated to USA USPS shipping where there tracking is possible on everything, and acceptance scans are available for proof of mailing.

If you use PayPal shipping for Small Packet, all you get is a "tracking" number that is proof of purcahse of the Small Packet service. There is no way to get proof of mailing even if you bring it to the Post Office?

Here are the terms from insurepost

Please note: In the event of a loss claim, we will require proof of mailing. Acceptable proof includes:
- USPS receipt
- PayPal screen shot of the shipping label or printout
- Endicia Dazzle postage log
- Stamps.com log
- Customs Declaration page with date stamp
- USPS Click N Ship Online Label Record
- Tracking Number (but MUST state Accepted or Arrival).

Additionally, you must provide proof that the shipping carrier received your package for mailing.

Placing a stamp on a package or using a meter machine is NOT ACCEPTABLE proof of mailing.

Now I emailed insurepost on this topic (13 Jan 2013) and the answer was that proof of mailing would be required.

"We have covered Light and Small Packets for years, and will continue to do so. We have also paid many claims on these types of shipments! We have removed the $100 of free coverage for Small Packets.

However, we do require some type of acceptance into the mail flow. Having an acceptance scan (or acceptance stamp) from the post office is what we need to prove an article was placed in the mail flow."

Now shipsurance says they have paid out many claims of Light Packet and Small packet in the past. How? Technically not by PayPal shipping so maybe by sellers who go to the post office and get the CN22 customs form stamped?

This seems to me that a seller has no coverage using Small Packet USA or International unless they bring the package to the post office, pay there and get a receipt for purchase from the PO. Now since it is stamped (still true now that there is no insurance from CP??) on the back of the CN22 form, you have proof of mailing??? Maybe not since you can just take the package with you and not mail it then and there.

So if proof of mailing is required by third party insurers and it is not possible to get proof of mailing (not through PayPal for sure if you drop off in the corner mailbox), then the third party insurers have a huge loophole to avoid paying out on insurance claims.

I will email insurepost to comment here directly in this topic.

PS cumos55, why are you starting a topic in eBay.ca Weekly Board Hour Session. It should be in the Seller Central, no. This forum is reserved for the weekly session.

pocomocomputing · ‎02-17-2013

Some confusion in my reply from insurepost as the paragraph below was taken a bit out of context to an earlier email.

"We have covered Light and Small Packets for years, and will continue to do so. We have also paid many claims on these types of shipments! We have removed the $100 of free coverage for Small Packets."

insurepost was stating that they removed the 100 free insurance for Small Packet that Canada Post covered and would insure the the first $100 insurance also since it was not available from Canada Post any more.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎02-17-2013

Sound like a lot of work. For an expensive item it is probably worth the time.

Has anyone ever made a claim with these thrid party insurers ?

pocomocomputing · ‎02-17-2013

My apologies to cumos55 for my comment in my post:

"PS cumos55, why are you starting a topic in eBay.ca Weekly Board Hour Session. It should be in the Seller Central, no. This forum is reserved for the weekly session."

I read the eBay news notice at the top of the topic as the forum topic location. My apologies again.

fernsevern · ‎02-17-2013

Also they all want an affidavit from the addressee on the package. Good luck getting that. The buyer only has to file with paypal not send you an affidavit and he may not even speak English.

pocomocomputing · ‎02-17-2013

For low value items like $100 or less (which is why you would be using a third party to insurance Small Packet), an affidavit is not required. emails from the buyer saying the item is not received as well as refund to the buyer by PayPal and/or a lost PayPal case is sufficient proof of loss. shipsurance understands that a buyer may not be easy to deal with and uncooperative. This is what I understand from what I read about shipsurance in the inkFrog forums. inkFrog offered third party listings tools and insurance underwritten by shipsurance.

fernsevern · ‎02-17-2013

U-Pic wants a signed statement from the consignee which I take to be the recipient of the package.

You may file a claim in three different ways:
1. You can file a claim online at www.u-pic.com. Make sure to have your client ID and name of your account.
2. You may sub...

Want to file a claim for a lost/damaged USPS parcel? Just provide the following:
1. U-PIC Claim For...

Want to file a claim for a lost/damaged UPS/FedEx/DHL/LTL parcel? Just provide the following:
1. U...

Want to know the status of your claim without having to call in? U-PIC is happy to provide you with ...

pocomocomputing · ‎02-19-2013

I got a reply today from InsurePost on the proof of mailing requirement for PayPal label users.

Their response is way too much effort for anything but the occasional Small Packet shipment. I do not think most Canada Post RPO's would put up with this method for an eBayer with many shipments at a time to process when the postage was paid through PayPal and the RPO gets none of the postage sale.

So it looks like manually filling out the CN22 forms and paying for postage at the post office to get the stamped CN-22 copy will be necessary to get the required proof of mailing for insurance from InsurePost and shipsurance. Possibly other third party insurers.

It looks like using InsurePost or shipsurance is NOT a good option for insuring your packages if you use PayPal shipping for Small Packet or Light Packet. The idea behind using PayPal shipping labels is to save time and drop off your items in your corner mailbox or at the PO and not wait in line. No proof of mailing = no insurance protection apparently.

Now I do understand InsurePost's position on proof of mailing. It prevents sellers scamming the buyer and the insurance provider. Do not mail the item and let the buyer claim Item Not received and the insurance pays off. I wonder if this is one of the reasons why Canada Post stopped the insurance on Small Packet. Not that a seller can do this more than a few times before the seller was flagged for too many claims and no longer was insured.

Here is the reply from InsurePost on "proof of mailing" and use of PayPal shipping labels.

We are getting many questions about this very fact. We just need to see that you physically placed something in the mailflow. This can be a receipt from the post office, a tracking number, a customs number, or a stamped document from the post office indicating acceptance. We have many shippers that use Canada Post and receive proof of mailing. Below is an example of what a user just did and is perfectly fine with us:

************
I printed off my PayPal shipping label, taped it to the outside of the order and went to the Canada Post office with the PayPal receipt, and the shipping receipt showing I paid for shipping on PayPal.
I got the the Post Master to stamp it and the shows the following from the stamp:
- Identifier number of the post office
- Today's date
- The town, province and postal code of the post office
She stamped PayPal receipt and shipping label receipt with the information above and initialed within the stamped image by the PostMaster
************

i*m-still-here · ‎02-19-2013

Poco.............

Are you saying that if we use paypal shipping that the person behind the counter where we drop the package off has to stamp the paypal receipt before a claim will even be considered?

Also......... that would mean that they are clearly misleading every customer who prints shipping labels on line and buys insurance for small or light packets and US First Class and First Class international shipments.......

That would amount to millions and millions of buyers of their product who were misled if I've understood you correctly and what you've posted is accurate.

Doesn't that sound right to you or did I get your post wrong?

It also isn't what they told me when I called them some time ago.

pocomocomputing · ‎02-19-2013

Insurepost says that proof of mailing is required for insurance to be effective. There is no easy way to provide proof of mailing for PayPal labels for Small Packet and Light Packet.

One option sent by InsurePost users had the Post Office stamp their PayPal receipt. As mentioned in my post, the retail post offices are not required to do this for PayPal labels since they are not involved in the transaction and do not receive any commission on the sale. So the solution provided may not work.

InsurePost is not misleading their customers. It is clearly in their terms of use that proof of mailing is needed. Before using their services, a seller needs to READ the InsurePost terms and understand them.

i*m-still-here · ‎02-19-2013

Poco....... I'm trying to read your posts again but I'm having a very hard time.

Re: shipsurance only............ and considering only Canada right now..........

They offer insurance for light packet and small packet.......... are you saying that this is not valid unless the shipper takes the receipt to the PO and has the paypal receipt stamped by someone who then manually accepts the package?

pocomocomputing · ‎02-19-2013

Poco....... I'm trying to read your posts again but I'm having a very hard time.

Re: shipsurance only............ and considering only Canada right now..........

They offer insurance for light packet and small packet.......... are you saying that this is not valid unless the shipper takes the receipt to the PO and has the paypal receipt stamped by someone who then manually accepts the package?

Yes, that is my understanding from email with InsurePost, a division of shipsurance. I cannot say if it applies to shipsurance since I did not correspond with shipsurance. Ironically, the email contact is named Arial who I had contact before with shipsurance before InsurePost existed.

My posts are intended to warn eBay sellers that using a third party insurer may require proof of shipping and that PayPal shipping using Light Packet or Small Packet does not have any method for proof of mailing. Before spending lots of money on third party insurance, a seller should make sure that the seller meet the terms of the insurance agreement when you purchase insurance. Claims may be refused because there is no proof of mailing.

I would suggest that you contact shipsurance for their requirements for insuring and their need for proof of shipping.

i*m-still-here · ‎02-19-2013

""I would suggest that you contact shipsurance for their requirements for insuring and their need for proof of shipping."""

Thank you for the suggestion, but as I already stated above I did that a long time ago.

The problem with these phone calls is that the call always ends with me wondering; What did they just say?

They know just how to dance around the grey areas.

I think we're all a little nervous about these companies because of those grey areas and the fact that they avoid clearing them up with all they've got.

HOWEVER........ if I had shares in shipsurance I think i'd be very nervous about the information you just posted above.

You didn't actually state shipsurance, but you strongly suggested that shipsurance operates the way you described.

a) You've said that we've all been wasting our money when buying shipping on line., but

b) You've also suggested that buying postage at the PO has even more of a disconnect with the purchase because first you ship the parcel, then you go home and use the receipt number to buy the insurance.

In other words.......

Since there is no reasonable way to connect our shipments with the insurance purchase whether we use on line or PO shipping..........

Basically, what you've said is that they do not insure small packet, light packet, or First Class mail even though they lead us to believe they do and take our money for it.

That's a mighty strong statement to make!

i*m-still-here · ‎02-19-2013

POCO........... What on earth are you talking about?

What False Accusations????

What do you think I'm accusing (you?) of?

What you posted go my attention and I simply and sincerely commented on your post.

Yes, I have posted mainly about shipsurance...............

but only because you very strongly suggested that shipsurance operates as InsurePost does because it's really one and the same.

If I did not read your post correctly then where and what is my misperception????

cumos55 · ‎02-20-2013

Knowing what to do with an insurance claim is the most important piece of information for a seller.

There are two parts to an insurance claim ..... (1) The seller, and (2) The buyer.

(1) Seller must have documentation that shows that the parcel was delivered to the post office

When one delivers the parcel to the post office, and pays at the post office.... seller gets a receipt, the customs declaration, CN22 for Small Paket, stating addresses, value of the item being shipping and an official stamp

The parcel has been officially received by the post office...

Paypal shipping will work.... but there has to be an "official" indication by the Post office that the parcel has been received.

The process for an order paid through Paypal was indicated at the end of reply 10.

It is my understanding that Paypal does not give a shipping discount with options such as Small Packet and Light Packet. Canada Post must verify the parcel is being shipped...

Perhaps Paypal shipping is not the best way to proceed ... Direct delivery to Canada Post and payment to Canada Post would appear to be the approach to receiving the appropriate documentation, that the parcel was shipped, and required for third party insurance...

Even with the use of Paypal shipping... an offical indication that the parcel has been received by Canada Post is required

(2) The Buyer must provide a written document saying that the parcel was not received....

This is a legal document signed by the buyer... a letter with the buyer's signature..

One gets the impression that the original copy of the document, and not a faxed copy is required.

Under some situations, this buyer requirement may differ.

The fact that the buyer has signed a letter has legal standing in an insurance claim.... Also the signature is not a copy....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The key to this process is knowing what to do if an insurance claim is filed.... what documents are needed to file that claim.

Each insurance company has its rules.... this provides a guide as to which destination a seller would not ship to... and limitations with respect to coverage.... all of the rules....

Only then should a seller proceed with the knowledge that all parcels are covered with full insurance....

Documentation, destination and more...Each seller has to decide what the process is ... and if there are questions, contact the insurance company.