WARNING - Ebay has changed its return policy.

[avionsunantiques]

I'm writing today to advise other ebay sellers of something very unfortunate that I've just discovered.

As you may know, sellers have the options of selling with returns, or by stating returns are not accepted.

The Returns Not Accepted option is subject to Ebay's guarantee - ie if the item was not as described, then it could be returned.   That is fair, and reasonable.

At the same time, buyer remorse was not grounds to return items, when the seller stated RETURNS NOT ACCEPTED.

I have just learned the hard way, that ebay has changed this policy.

If the seller states RETURNS NOT ACCEPTED, and a buyer opens a claim stating the item is not as described (even high value items like my example today - USD$1750), ebay will automatically allow the buyer to return the item without consideration of the facts before ebay.

To make matters worse, ebay will automatically allow the buyer to return the item even when the buyers own reasons show their claim to be BS.

In my case the buyer provided pictures claiming damage (some missing paint).    However their own pictures showed the paint was not missing at all - it was just a lighter shade.

When presented with that evidence, the buyer then stated they wanted to return the item because they think they paid to much (text book buyer remorse).

Ebay agreed with me, that the claim was false.

However, Ebay stated that even though the claim is obviously false, the claim will still be found in the buyers favour.

And that is the change to ebay's return policy I'm writing to alert you to today.    Now ALL item not as described claims are automatically won by the buyer, even when the buyer's own evidence shows their claim is actually buyer remorse.

This gives a green light to any reseller, to buy items on ebay from sellers using the NO RETURNS ACCEPTED OPTION, and attempt to resell them.    Then if unsuccessful, they can return the item, with zero shipping cost (seller pays both ways).

To make it even worse.    Ebay tells the seller that if they do not pay for return shipping in these scam cases, then the buyer will get to keep the item and ebay will take the money from your account.

[reallynicestamps]

This has been discussed often, at least weekly, on the Boards. Your post is much more literate than some.

Yep, buyers who do not want their purchase will return it for a refund.

The only question is who pays for the return.

• The seller can refuse a return and lose the payment and the item.
• The buyer can pay for the return and be refunded.
• The seller can pay for the return and lose the payment plus the cost of return shipping. He then has the item to relist.

But the basic point here is that for whatever reason the buyer does not want the purchase.

EBay and Paypal will not get in between. Neither has any way of assessing the truth of either side.

Do you really want the quality of your item assessed by a minimum wage clerk in Utah who is mostly just dying for a pee break?

The buyer does not want the purchase.

Build the cost of occasional problems, like return shipping, into the asking price of all your listings.

This self-insurance is called Cookie Jar Insurance around here, because those premiums are tiny amounts, often pennies or dimes, and cover all the hiccups that third party insurance will not.

Like return shipping. Or the inevitable day you switch labels on two items and ship them off. Or a buyer who buys a red doohickey, wanted cherry red and got scarlet .

It's business, not personal.

Send the shipping label.*

Get the item back in saleable condition.

Relist. Resell.

Put the whiner on your Blocked Bidder List.

*If your buyer is in the US you can send a USPS label using Shippo. Politely remind the buyer that the customs declaration should read "Returned Merchandise".

[reallynicestamps]

Off topic-- Since you sell fine antiques, who do you use for your commercial insurance?

We use Hugh Wood International, both for our philatelic stock and for our own art collection, and have been very happy with their service.  We rarely do shows anymore, but they covered not only our shop but also travel to and from shows and consigned material.

[avionsunantiques]

Thank you for your reply.

The part that ebay told me changed about 1 year ago is as follows

Now ebay will not consider the merits of the return claim (for No Return items).

The buyer automatically will be able to return an item - all they have to do is say it is not as described.

For example, you could buy a car, and say it is not as described, but claiming it arrived in two halfs (and show a picture of a complete car in perfect condition which contradicts your claim).   However ebay will ignore the evidence, and authorise a return.   

If the seller does not provide return shipping, the buyer can keep the item, and get their money back.

I have a problem with that - if I wanted returns for no reason, I would choose the return policy.

[avionsunantiques]

It would be very helpful if you could tell me how to buy a return label on shippo for USPS.

And, how do you get that label to the buyer?

I'm in Canada and the buyer is in the US.

I used shippo to ship the item in the first place via canadapost

Also, if the buyer doesn't return the item, can I get my money back for the return label?

I look forward to your reply

[reallynicestamps]

Go to Shippo .

Choose the USPS as the shipper. You may have to add it to your account.

I'm a technodolt, but I was able to do it fairly easily by paying attention. It was some months ago, maybe even a year. I don't get many NAD disputes.

You send the label to the buyer as a pdf.

Yes if the buyer does not use the label, you will (eventually ) be refunded.  And if the item is not returned you do not refund, obviously.

This may be useful. I assume you have some idea of the dimensions and weight of the original package.

https://postcalc.usps.com/?country=10440

Another takeaway.

No Returns does not mean No Refunds.

In my opinion, a No Returns policy leads to more problems than not.

If the buyer wants to return for a refund, she would feel comfortable doing so if Return for Refund is available -- even if it means paying for the return.

But if the seller has a No Returns policy, the buyer can feel pressed to escalate to the Not As Described, which forces the seller to pay for the return.

[recped]

I don't understand your post......

First you say:

The Returns Not Accepted option is subject to Ebay's guarantee - ie if the item was not as described, then it could be returned. That is fair, and reasonable.

Then you say:

a buyer opens a claim stating the item is not as described (even high value items like my example today - USD$1750), ebay will automatically allow the buyer to return the item without consideration of the facts before ebay.

Both are Not As Described claims, there is only one fact and that is the buyer has claimed that the item is not as described. Why is it "fair and reasonable" on the one hand but not on the other.

FYI - eBay policy has never changed on this, the only thing that has changed is that sellers can no longer attempt (virtually zero chance of winning) to decline a SNAD. The good things about that is they won't have cases where they are the loser and get a mega-defect because they tried to fight when they had no chance of a win.

FYI #2 - if you change your settings to require a RMA# then these returns may not be auto-approved but it won't change the fact that ultimately you will need to accept the return.

[reallynicestamps]

What's an RMA #?

[retroman_studios]

Return Material Authorization Number.

A way of controlling returns so the system isn't abused or a policy isn't overlooked. On eBay it just adds an extra step to the return process. But for some larger vendors it also makes sure the return can be identified, as if someone returns a widget, there could be 300 other people returning the same widget, so you need a way to identify them.

[westcoastart2]

FYI, I contacted Shippo, and was told Canadapost does not support the creation of return labels from the US.

Shippo gave me a work around solution, however this solution did not permit a signature option (required by ebay in my case).

Shippo confirmed that a return label CAN NOT by purchased in my case (requiring a signature on receipt).

I had to send money to the buyer by paypal so they could post the item themselves (ended up over paying by about $20).

[westcoastart2]

Dear recped.

Sorry you don't understand my post.

I will attempt to clarify.

The ebay guarantee is published on the ebay web site. This allows sellers to decide if they want to sell on ebay, or choose somewhere else instead. The published statement is as follows:

"If asked to step in and help, we (Ebay) review the item description and any other information about the item that the buyer and seller provide. If we can't determine that the item matches the listing description, if the seller has already offered a return, or the seller's stated return window and policy applies, we may ask the buyer to return the item to the seller."

The above states that ebay will review the information provided by the buyer and seller and make a reasonable decision about how to proceed.

This means that if the buyer's claim is contradicted by the information provided to ebay (typically this means the buyer's claims are internally inconsistent, and thereby disqualify themselves), then ebay will not support the buyer's claim.

Up until 1 year ago, all high value items (was over US750, now over US$1000), not as described complaints were reviewed by ebay. A decision was made based on the information available to ebay. (Non-high value cases were not reviewed, and were automatically found in favour of the buyer)

Over the years we have had a number of fraudulent buyer claims concerning misrepresented high value items. In each case ebay reviewed the information provided by the buyer and seller, and dismissed the buyer's claim.

A simple example would be if I sell a vase with a 3" crack. I describe the crack in text and photographs in the listing. A buyer then files and item not as described complaint, claiming the item has a 3" crack. In this case, the buyer's own words confirm the description. Up until 1 year ago, in a high value situation, the buyer would loose such a complaint.

Now however, the buyer will win. Even though the claim is obviously fraudulent on its face, Ebay will coerse the seller into paying for return shipping, otherwise the buyer can keep the item and ebay will return the cost of the item, and take the money back from the seller.

The change that took place 1 year ago, is that ebay began a policy of always finding in favor of the buyer - even when the buyer's complaint was obviously fraudulent based on the information available to ebay. This means, in ALL CASES - not just when ebay can't tell one way or the other, the buyer will win, and the item will be returned.

This contradicts ebay's published stated buyer guarantee terms.

That means ebay is misrepresenting themselves to sellers (ebay's customers).

Hopefully this clears up your misunderstanding.

[femmefan1946]

You don't have to contact Shippo.

The USPS is right there in the list of available shippers.

Canada Post has nothing to do with it.

You are buying a USPS label from USPS through Shippo.

Online.

From robots.

If  a tecnodolt like me can do it, anyone can.

[teenytrinkets]

In other words, as a buyer, it's easier to return something and even get your shipping refunded on eBay than on Amazon Prime.

That's disgusting, really...

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@teenytrinkets 

Unfortunately/sadly not always the case. A seller I know in the USA recently bought some clothing items from another seller in the USA (They were purchasing as a favor for a friend). When they arrived, 1 was soiled(clothing) and the other was damaged/broken(dress shoes). They returned to the seller. Got authorization to return. Seller stated they received the return but it arrived without goods and just crumpled paper inside package. Seller got to keep money and buyer was unable to leave feedback.

-Lotz

[cardfandom]

This a lot of the reason I've switched to selling on my site primarily. I am tired of such a high percentage of nightmare scam buyers mostly on ebay market. I am happy as always to be a retail guru to service the community for the past decade but there are a lot of slimy characters and it'd be nice to have a better mix but beggars can't be choosers.

[ypdc_dennis]

ZOMBIE thread from 2019 with old information.

If needed start a new thread: https://community.ebay.ca/t5/forums/postpage/category-id/11002/choose-node/true

[kh-leslie]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.