eBay is removing my listings for being counterfeit, but I don't sell fakes. On my "final warning"

[thebestrarefinds]

eBay removed two of my listings which were for Rick Owens tote bags that I literally bought at the Rick Owens store in LA like 7 years ago and a pair of Nike's that I bought at the Nike store and even still have the receipt for.

I wouldn't really care, but this new message I received from them says my account is on its "final warning" and I will be banned if they snipe something else that they allege is fake.

I have 159 feedback since 2014 selling luxury goods and don't even own a single fake item - nor have I ever.

I've only ever received a single piece of negative feedback for a guy who claimed a used iPhone I sold him in 2014 wasn't unlocked. There was no claim either - I paid for his label to return the product (which he did) and he still left a negative.

No issues with anyone claiming anything is counterfeit. I feel like I'm about to vomit. Ebay is a significant source of my income and I just ended all of my listings in a panic.

I'm just really freaking out right now. Anyone know what to do? Or am I just totally screwed? I feel like a sitting duck with thousands of items listed knowing any one of them can be nabbed at any moment.

[intimewithmusic]

You need to protect your account but don't "freak out". Most sellers at some point are victimized by eBay's Vero program and it's not just eBay it's other platforms as well. Here's a couple of things you should do;

1. Read the eBay Verified Rights Owner Policy. It can be found at this link;

   https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/intellectual-property-vero-program/selling-policies/listing-polici...

   Then go through the list of companies and rights holders that have registered various guidelines for selling products. the list is at this link;

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/ebay-for-business/verified-rights-owner-program#m17-1-tb3

2. Figure out which items are troublesome.  Take them down. The fact they aren't counterfeit makes no difference (complicated).

3. Visit these 2 YouTube channels. Search each for the word "VERO". Watch the videos regardless of whether you like the hosts. They tell it like it is and both will explain it's best to figure it out and move on. You don't need to go back farther than 2021. The problem is growing so no need to review old information.

The "The Auction Professor" channel and  "RockstarFlipper" channel both give a clear view of how to move on after a VERO strike.

  Vero strikes are serious and shouldn't be taken lightly. They can be initiated by the manufacturer for various reasons, by another seller/buyer on eBay for various reasons and by eBay for various reasons. These two YouTube channels go over the reasons and solutions very clearly. Links aren't necessary here. They are very popular channels and easy to find on YouTube.

  It's a good idea to get familiar with the many reasons VEROs occur as not to list products that repeat the problem. 

  Generally someone or a rights holder broke up with your listing. Like any breakup it's helpful to know "It's not you, it's them".

  Learn and move forward!

PS, It won't hurt, but from my experience  writing the company to appeal the complaint and allow your listing is a waste of time....

[brettjet38]

I had a VERO once for some buttons I was selling that were in the shape of the Chanel crossed Cs, I didn't even realize until the listing was taken down.

They were plastic buttons, I threw them in the trash and moved on...

Not worth the trouble. 

[byto253]

Some companies and organizations use the VERO to bully and shut down resellers.  Not much you can do about it.

[thebestrarefinds]

This is an amazing response - thank you.

I misinterpreted the email ebay sent me in that this is my final warning before a 3 day limitation.

Here is the thing, I once received a Vero takedown on Etsy many years ago. Only once. The email mentioned that it was a VERO takedown, however, these ebay emails did not. The customer service reps mentioned that these have nothing to do with Vero and that this is all internal to ebay. I'm not sure if they're telling the truth or how this changes things.

I'll check out those YouTube channels as well, but the items they're advising against selling are no brainers to me like military documents, human remains, firearms, opened cosmetics, etc.

I'm nowhere near selling anything like that...

I'm just wondering how this plays out going forward... let's say I relist everything and in 2 weeks, something else gets taken down... that will put me into a 3 day suspension... so what about after that? Does it hand me another 3 day? Get increased to a 7 day? What about after that? Is a lifetime suspension in the cards here?

It's just frustrating because I try so hard to be a good + honest seller. I've never even owned a counterfeit product - wouldn't even know where to get one. Now I'm being talked to like a criminal and have my livlihood is extremely serious jeopardy... over nothing!!

[thebestrarefinds]

Interesting, I'm not 100% sure my listings were taken down for VERO reasons. I had an Etsy listing get taken down like years ago and they mentioned it was a VERO thing in the email. Neither of these ebay emails mention anything about VERO and one of the companies involved (Rick Owens) isn't one of the VERO companies on the list - neither is the parent co. That makes this situation even worse...

[thebestrarefinds]

I'm not 100% sure my listings were taken down for VERO reasons. I had an Etsy listing get taken down like years ago and they mentioned it was a VERO thing in the email. Neither of these ebay emails mention anything about VERO and one of the companies involved (Rick Owens) isn't one of the VERO companies on the list - neither is the parent co. That makes this situation even worse...

[byto253]

Is eBay requiring all shoes/runners to go through its own verification program now?  I don't sell shoes so am not up on this. 

[thebestrarefinds]

It's hit or miss.

Anytime I sell a brand new in box pair of shoes from a major brand like Nike, adidas, Vans, then it goes to the verification centre, but if it's a loose pair without the box that is used, then generally it doesn't go to the verification program.

[flipistics]

There's a lot of good information in this thread already, but I'll add a few points. You should verify what I say, because there's a few things I'm not 100% sure on.

1. Some companies illegally use VERO to prevent their items from appearing in the secondary markets. All you can do about it is sue them, but you'd be doing so against a large team of very highly paid lawyers. Probably not a good idea as there's likely some obscure technicality somewhere they could win on, and then you'd be on the hook for all their legal fees as well. Best to just sell it locally on FB or something.
2. Companies are starting to use a loophole in trademark law to prevent their products being sold in certain venues. Basically, my understanding is they got a judge in the USA to rule that a warranty is an essential part of a product. Therefore, if the warranty is voided (either through age or by the company themselves for whatever reason they want), the product is considered to be a new product and the first sale doctrine (or whatever it's called in the States) no longer applies. What this means is that if the warranty is void (or will be when you sell it) and you use the product name, company name, etc to describe it, you're breaking trademark law and they can take action against you. I don't believe this has ever been tested in court in Canada, but it certainly has been in the States. This needs a legislative fix.
3. You can still sell some items on the VERO list, but you need to read through what the manufacturer says and adhere to it. Printer ink is an excellent example of this. They often spell out exactly how to list them so the listings don't get taken down.
4. You should probably be careful about companies that have extensive distributor networks. Many dealerships pay insane fees to be allowed to sell the company's products, and both the company and the dealership have a very strong motivation to do anything they can to prevent other people from selling the product.
5. Rules can be complicated when items cross borders. I've heard that many VERO takedowns are actually because of items designated only for one market being sold into another. Think of a North American product being sold to Europe. Just allowing the option for people in an unauthorized market to buy an item can get it taken down under the VERO program. (I'm actually wondering if this might be what happened with your Nike shoes. It might be worth your while to actually contact Nike and ask).
6. Make sure your photos include everything necessary for a manufacturer to reasonably figure out whether your product is genuine or counterfeit. Adding a photo of an original receipt (you can redact some things if you feel you need to) could also help.
7. Adding some disclaimers at the bottom of your listings might not be the worst idea. I've noticed that some companies that sell items subject to a lot of VERO takedowns do this and seem to manage to keep their listings from being targeted. You can take a look at one of my listings and see how I'm trying to do it (I include the same information on all my listings). I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but I figure it can't hurt.
8. Make sure the items were not subject to recalls, and are not offered for sale in jurisdictions where they are not permitted for import or sale due to legal reasons (think lawn darts or pest control items).
9. Try to make sure you aren't using copyrighted or trademarked terms when describing an item they don't apply to. The extremely common example here is using the term "velcro" when describing an item that uses a generic version of it. Also make sure you never use stock photography or copy item descriptions, etc from the packaging. Always take your own photos and write your own descriptions.

[pjcdn2005]

If these were VERO takedowns, that would be very clear in the message that you received. EBay lately has been doing more internal 'counterfeit' removals but I'm not sure how they determine that and it doesn't seem as if there is a process to dispute it.  Even if you can get the violation against removed, you shouldn't relist those items.

[thebestrarefinds]

I agree, it doesn't seem like Vero.

I just can't believe there are as harsh punitive measures as lifetime bans and absolutely 0 framework to help sellers comply with the TOS, Vero, etc.

[thebestrarefinds]

This is great information - thank you.

I will prepare a new disclaimer section to the bottom of my emails and check yours for reference.

I wonder, do you know how long the warning effects of the takedowns are in place for?

I saw in another comment in another thread that your account can get sent back to a good standing state in roughly 6 months.

[ricarmic]

I'm late to the game here, but I'll add maybe another perspective, it is very important to NOT take this kind of stuff as personal.

Think of eBay as a big ponderous electronic machine ambling along with electronic "rules" watching out for things that at some point have been abused or misused which generated the frustrating and at times expensive rules.

If something you have trips one of the rules the "bots" react in they way they've been set. No idea about the whys or reasonableness, it has simply been tripped which activates whatever consequence has been set for it.

I'll give a personal example, a long time ago I couldn't list stamps from the "Ivory Coast" because one was not allowed to sell Ivory on eBay. Of course a stamp from Ivory Coast isn't made of ivory but the bots reacted to the word "Ivory" in the title. Since that time it has been fixed, but it is a good example of how the rules may be overreaching at times.

There seems to be very mixed results when the support folks are invoked when someone inadvertently breaks a rule, but that's the first time a human has actually been involved (unless in your situation it was someone like a competitor etc that caused it).

Anyway it looks like you are making great progress at building an understanding of what you need to do to avoid more of these, these boards are an EXCELLENT way to learn valuable things.

[flipistics]

---

@thebestrarefinds wrote:

I saw in another comment in another thread that your account can get sent back to a good standing state in roughly 6 months.

---

I THINK it's 1 year, but certain types of less punative defects can be a few months if you have good sales volume. I would think that some of the rare designer type items you sell would be higher risk. General goods, for the most part, are probably much safer.

I can only remember having one VERO takedown myself. It was printer toner which, as it turned out, was part of a subscription program and technically owned by the company. I wasn't penalized though as the company pointed out there was no way I could have known. They provided a label to send it back to them, which I did, and there were no dings on my account or other issues.

[reallynicestamps]

There was no claim either - I paid for his label to return the product (which he did) and he still left a negative.

To get that one out of the way. You should have allowed the Claim,because when it was properly settled by your refund, he would not have been  able to leave feedback. But hindsight is 20/20.

I'd suggest the social media accounts, which are covered by actual employees.

And you get a transcript of your Chat. You should also be able to show the Nike reciept.


https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.
https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.




[reallynicestamps]

Rules can be complicated when items cross borders.

Yes.

We used to sell Replogle Globes as an authorized dealer in our B&M stamp shop. (Because what do you put in the window of a stamp shop?)

The globes were on our website and we occasionally did sell one online. We were not allowed to ship the globes to any other province and certainly not back to the USA on pain of losing our contract.

[busybeas_books]

I got the VERO listing takedown a few years ago for listing a building blocks toy as Lego that wasn't actually Lego. I think I had 'like Lego" in the title. "Lego compatable" seems to be okay, I just did a search on .com and there are thousands with that in the title.

[intimewithmusic]

Hi @thebestrarefinds 

 Here's some Clarifications that may help others that visit this thread in the future:

• "VERO" is just an acronym, not an action. When action is taken to remove a listing due to a complaint against it we all say we got a "VERO"strike.  When your item was taken down you should have received an email from eBay. It includes the complaintant's name and email address.  This is the "VERO" but I'm not sure the acronym is ever quoted.
•    If you send an email to the company/individual and appeal eBay now says 

• "Contact us in the following circumstances

  • You can’t find the rights owner’s email address in your removal notification email.
  • You sent an email to the rights owner, but they haven’t replied after 5 business days."

   I think this is new. I don't really know if eBay will actually do anything at that point but you could try it. 

• One of the reasons this is a growing problem (particularily with clothing) is that some manufacturers themselves are moving into the sale of their own used clothing both on their websites and in online platforms. Due to the surge in online returns they see eBay sellers competing with their own online sales of their used returns so they retaliate with a VERO. It's unclear if this is legal but at this time it "the wild west" out there and eBay doesn't want to mediate these or make judgements. 

• The VERO list of registrants is for eBay sellers to consult before listing an item. The complaintant does not have to be on the list to have an item removed.  

•   Here are the choices complaintants have to select from when they ask eBay to remove a listing. 

Reportable listings include

• Items that infringe on your intellectual property.
• Counterfeit or replica items.
• Unauthorized use of copyrighted content in a listing or product page

Looks like #2 is relevant even if your item is not counterfeit.  Sometimes the complaintant has a reason that is not one of these three so  they check "Counterfeit" just to seek the takedown.  No one can tell without examination but eBay will take down the item.

A weird example I know of is a specific used kids wagon. It's OK with the maker for sellers to list the used wagon on eBay. It's OK to have photos of the wagon in the listing. It's not OK to include a photo of the box in the listing. You can say it comes with the box. For some reason if there's a photo of it they will claim a breach of Intelectual Property. (complicated)

  It sounds like you learned a lot. There are many great sellers here giving their two cents it's wonderful! Others will tune into this over the next year or so and they will benefit. Thanks for posting your dilema!

Best wishes!

ITWM

[Anonymous]

I just had a listing removed, a Marc Jacobs bag that I purchased on ebay, 2 years ago.
I'm not sure what to do either.