eBay

kalvin@ebay.com · ‎09-26-2013

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here.

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

~Kalvin
eBay.ca Community Manager

kalvin@ebay.com

pierrelebel · ‎01-05-2014

The subject of GSP is a difficult one for Canadians. First, there is a lot of misinformation out there and, unfortunately, some folks feed on that.

As far as I am concerned, as stated often on the boards, I do not like the program as currently structured and administered and basically blame eBay for the majority of the problems: eBay was pushing American sellers to use the program even in cases when GSP was clearly not beneficial to sellers or buyers, offering sellers incentives such as free FVF. There has been little, if any, education by eBay helping and guiding sellers as to when and how to use the program.

Then we have American sellers using the program when clearly they should not. They have to accept some responsibility for their stupidity at times.

What to expect in the future from GSP? I see eBay setting up structures (in the listing form) to guide American sellers as to when not to use the program.

I also expect eBay to eventually - and it is long overdue - force PayPal and Pitney Bowes to fully disclose the details of all charges (duty (if applicable), taxes (type and rate) and handling (brokerage) fee charged by Pitney Bowes.

Finally i suspect most American sellers will eventually stop using GSP when shipping to Canada. It may be a useful tool when shipping overseas but is generally not needed when selling to most Canadian buyers.

rick31797 · ‎01-05-2014

@marnotom! wrote:
@1049-and-bracket wrote:

Hi, I am a Canadian buyer and I am VERY disappointed with this program for the following reasons:

     Customs and import fees are roughly 50% higher than what Canada Post charges.

     Shipping charges are significantly higher.

     Shipping charges for purchasing multiple quantities of the same item are outrageous to put it straight. Any auction where multiple quantities of the same item were available that I visited gave shipping quotes of almost double for purchasing 2 items; almost triple shipping cost for quantity of 3; about 3.5X shipping cost for purchasing quantity of 4, etc. For example I wanted to purchase 4 units of an item I saw yesterday and the shipping quote I got for 1 unit was around $28.00; when I changed the quantity to 4, I got a quote of $96.00. I know that at least 5 of these units can fit into a USPS priority mail medium flat rate box and ship for exactly the same price as 1 unit.

    According to what I read, excess shipping charges are NOT refunded according to the terms and conditions of the Global Shipping Program. If so, this is WRONG!

    I have no control over which carrier ships my purchase. I prefer the post office for 2 main reasons: 1. I live in a rural area and whenever I use a courier service I have to arrange for a drop off location in my local town as they do not come to my house. 2. I have had more than 1 occasion where for some reason a courier service returned my item to the sender after claiming to be unable to deliver it to me.

    For all of the above reasons I will NOT make a purchase from any seller using the Global shipping Program and will either purchase from a seller who does not participate in the program or take my business elsewhere. There is no fix or cure for this program; it needs to disappear.


Hi, 1049. You're mostly among Canadians here so you don't really need to identify yourself as such. 😉

My take on the GSP is that when it's being used inappropriately for lightweight, modestly-priced items, it's by sellers who haven't done much if any international shipping in their lives. If the program disappears, those listings available to Canada will likely disappear as well.

In addition, some sellers using the GSP aren't even aware that they're using it, so if you ask them a question about it you may get the internet equivalent of a deer in headlights in response.

I do question your math when it comes to the import charges, though. I've found lots of instances where the GSP import charges are less than what would be collected by Canada Border Services and Canada Post. For example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251414288313

I set the shipping location to an Ontario postal code and got US$8.93 in import charges, so that would be taxes plus whatever the GSP takes for itself and eBay. In this case, the GSP's share would be US$6.46. Seeing as Canada Post would charge C$9.95 to collect the taxes charged by Canada Border Services on the item, it seems to me that what the GSP would be charging in this case would be less than if the item were sent through the mail and taxed by Canada Border Services. I don't see a 50% higher charge. What does your math say?

You keep forgetting or choose to forget, that Customs more times then not, let the item go through with no tax or duty applied, as many people on this board has said, so there is really no reason to buy using GSP and being guaranteed to pay the import charges, items big or small...Logically why would anybody do that, your not breaking any law, and over a course of a year, you have saved enough money to go towards the paypay and ebay fees.

walker0017 · ‎01-05-2014

I have no issues with paying any taxes or duties that the CRA/CBSA levy on me for items I have purchased and sent to me through the mail, but if none are levied against me why should I voluntarily prepay it as this GSP is doing?

I do have one important question though, there was an earlier older post about the GSP where the poster either stated or inferred that the taxes and duties collected by eBay/Pitney-Bowes are only sent to the affected country if requested by the CRA or CBSA or other international tax authority. Does anyone know if that is true? If it is, what happens to the money if not claimed by them or does eBay/Pitney Bowes voluntarily send some sort of accounting statement periodically world wide which lists all the names, addresses, item descriptions with their value and taxes/duties levied.

What percentage of this tax/duties they are collecting do they charge the various governmental Tax authorities for voluntarily collecting these taxes/duties since legally they are not obligated to do so.

Why should any Canadian buyer want to purchase an item that after the price, shipping and the GSP costs are added which in all are significantly higher than when the GSP is not used in almost 100% of the time although according to some there are a few exceptions.

I am sure I will get a strong response from some of the heavy GSP defenders out there as I have seen already when anyone questions or criticises this highly questionable program but that is ok so long as they answer my questions especially this question, why participate in a program that is only costing buyers more so we end up buy less from only the US sellers and ultimately costing US sellers in lost sales because they are participating in a program that gives them a less competitive bottom line after all costs are factored in.

marnotom! · ‎01-05-2014

@rick31797 wrote:
You keep forgetting or choose to forget, that Customs more times then not, let the item go through with no tax or duty applied, as many people on this board has said, so there is really no reason to buy using GSP and being guaranteed to pay the import charges, items big or small...Logically why would anybody do that, your not breaking any law, and over a course of a year, you have saved enough money to go towards the paypay and ebay fees.

I'm not forgetting anything. I was simply responding to the point:

Customs and import fees are roughly 50% higher than what Canada Post charges.

Points about Canada Border Services not charging tax on items that are subject to tax are irrelevant in this context.

Points about PayPal and eBay fees are also irrelevant, by the way, as buyers don't get charged those fees, at least not directly.

rick31797 · ‎01-05-2014

@walker0017 wrote:
I have no issues with paying any taxes or duties that the CRA/CBSA levy on me for items I have purchased and sent to me through the mail, but if none are levied against me why should I voluntarily prepay it as this GSP is doing?
I do have one important question though, there was an earlier older post about the GSP where the poster either stated or inferred that the taxes and duties collected by eBay/Pitney-Bowes are only sent to the affected country if requested by the CRA or CBSA or other international tax authority. Does anyone know if that is true? If it is, what happens to the money if not claimed by them or does eBay/Pitney Bowes voluntarily send some sort of accounting statement periodically world wide which lists all the names, addresses, item descriptions with their value and taxes/duties levied.
What percentage of this tax/duties they are collecting do they charge the various governmental Tax authorities for voluntarily collecting these taxes/duties since legally they are not obligated to do so.
Why should any Canadian buyer want to purchase an item that after the price, shipping and the GSP costs are added which in all are significantly higher than when the GSP is not used in almost 100% of the time although according to some there are a few exceptions.
I am sure I will get a strong response from some of the heavy GSP defenders out there as I have seen already when anyone questions or criticises this highly questionable program but that is ok so long as they answer my questions especially this question, why participate in a program that is only costing buyers more so we end up buy less from only the US sellers and ultimately costing US sellers in lost sales because they are participating in a program that gives them a less competitive bottom line after all costs are factored in.

I cannot answer your question, and i dont know how people would know this information, you will find some posters speculate alot with nothing to back up there information

You are right there are GSP defenders here, they keep saying it can benefit buyers buying higher priced items..its a very weak defence as even higher priced items sent USPS may not be taxed.So like you already know why use GSP and pay upfront the tax , no exception.. I am sure when Ebay and PB where at the table they had no input from Canadian buyers, they were just thinking about revenue and using Ebay sellers to generate more money for Ebay and PB . its always about the money..

And for me, even if GSP was cheaper, i still would not use them, because of what i hear from people that have used them.There is no doubt in my mind , using GSP, your package will travel a longer distance, and be handled more..and shipping will take longer..People have had items opened and re-packed and received items damaged.

Trying to find sellers not using GSP can be challenging, like others i am buying less or and when i do find a deal, the seller is using GSP.

walker0017 · ‎01-05-2014

Thanks for being able to answer part of my questions and I agree with you that when this GSP was created it was not for the benefit of the buyers but for revenue generation for eBay and PB as if they were not generating millions in profits already. It appears in my opinion only that eBay has fallen a long ways from what it was originally intended to be and now is no different than other large American corporation that is more interested in profit generation than customer service and have forgotten the reason why they were created in the first place which would totally explain their creation of the GSP. Pretty sad.

ve7brian · ‎01-05-2014

I agree with walker.

The only "pro-GSP" posters obviously have a vested interest in eBay or PB (can you say shares?)

Don't bother filing complaints with eBay, go directly to FTC.

Enough complaints will draw an investigation. (eBay blocking alternative shipping, etc.)

Ron White; "Can't fix stupid"

marnotom! · ‎01-05-2014

@rick31797 wrote:

I cannot answer your question, and i dont know how people would know this information, you will find some posters speculate alot with nothing to back up there information

You are right there are GSP defenders here, they keep saying it can benefit buyers buying higher priced items..its a very weak defence as even higher priced items sent USPS may not be taxed.

You're quite right. A lot of people make complaints about the GSP with nothing to back up their contentions. I'd still like to find an example of today's assertion that the GSP's import charges are 50% higher than what Canada Border Services and Canada Post would charge for the same item.

I'm not trying to "defend" the GSP. I'm just stating facts.

Here's two listings for a Keurig K60 coffee maker. Yes, one is refurbished and one is new, but for the purposes of the GSP they weigh the same and they're the same price.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161188741368

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/201013538198

If you're in Ontario, shipping with the GSP is only 30 cents more than a direct shipment, and that's with import charges (taxes). If you're in a province such as Alberta with a lower sales tax, the GSP item will be less expensive than a direct shipment.

Yes, the GSP certainly has problems. The rollout has been haphazard, some sellers appear to have been hoodwinked into taking it on board, you can't combine shipping with it, and the process of buyers getting a refund appears to be less than straightforward. But I think it's a non-argument that it charges the equivalent of taxes and duty that are legally due on the item. Now if you want to argue that the taxation process of GSP items is less than transparent which can cause problems for some buyers, I've no quibbles with you there.

Rah. Rah. Sis. Boom. Bah.

afantiques · ‎01-06-2014

there was an earlier older post about the GSP where the poster either stated or inferred that the taxes and duties collected by eBay/Pitney-Bowes are only sent to the affected country if requested by the CRA or CBSA or other international tax authority. Does anyone know if that is true?

This is not true. The collected taxes are paid when the items are cleared inwards in the importing country, like any other commercial import. This differs from the system for imports by mail in significant ways.

I have never seen anyone defend the GSP on the boards, but there are many rather excessive misconceptions that could do with being met with some factual advice, and this is probably construed as defence by anyone who considers anything less than blazing anti GSP fanaticism as defending the process.

The program was designed in ignorance and applied with deception, and continues with long standing flaws ignored, but it is neither illegal, a 'scam' or a 'cash grab', whatever that is. It is no more or less than a package forwarding service of the type that has been operated for years by independent companies.

arlene_v · ‎01-06-2014

For me, the major problem is that the way the charges are presented.

Breakdown of the charges is very unclear in the GSP listings.

I've been looking at hundreds of GSP listings for vintage and antique costume and fine jewelry this weekend, and the "import charges" just don't correlate with what I'm expecting .... in most cases they are much higher than a simple 13% HST.

One such example out of thousands

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Jose-Maria-Barrera-for-Avon-Mayan-Style-Clip-Earrings-NIB-1994-signed-/290995...

To avoid the impression that PB is inflating the import charges, the way this amount is calculated needs to be broken down in each and every listing using the GSP. This is only fair to the potential buyer. We should not need to come to a community board to get answers.

We are merely buyers on an online site ... not specialists in cross border taxation or NAFTA regulations ... and not once has Ebay explained to buyers what these PB charges are other than a vague assurance in listings that these charges are applied and they constitute part of the fees.

Most rational buyers want to know what part of these "Import charges" is GST/PST/HST, what part might or might not be duty, what part is insurance and what part is Pitney Bowes cut. We need to see a proper breakdown of charges, before we decide to bid or do a BIN. How am I supposed to enter a max bid on an auction style listing that uses the GSP if I don't know what all the extra charges are going to finally amount to?

In other words, transparency ...(I loathe that word, but what the heck!)

xendlessfightx · ‎01-06-2014

I've been on ebay for 12 years now with this account and I'd say 85% of my feedbacks are from buying not selling. this program is going to really drop the amount i purchase off this site. some of the prices i see tacked on things are insane. I've bought so much stuff i know the ratio of when i'll get charged duty and when i won't.

Just as a scenerio for you ebay....the last three items that i've been searching for that i would have normally hit BIN on I instead saw the fee and clicked X. That's what you're doing to your Canadian base, pushing them away. not a very smart business tactic.

rick31797 · ‎01-06-2014

@marnotom! wrote:

@rick31797 wrote:

I cannot answer your question, and i dont know how people would know this information, you will find some posters speculate alot with nothing to back up there information

You are right there are GSP defenders here, they keep saying it can benefit buyers buying higher priced items..its a very weak defence as even higher priced items sent USPS may not be taxed.

You're quite right. A lot of people make complaints about the GSP with nothing to back up their contentions. I'd still like to find an example of today's assertion that the GSP's import charges are 50% higher than what Canada Border Services and Canada Post would charge for the same item.

I'm not trying to "defend" the GSP. I'm just stating facts.

Here's two listings for a Keurig K60 coffee maker. Yes, one is refurbished and one is new, but for the purposes of the GSP they weigh the same and they're the same price.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161188741368

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/201013538198

If you're in Ontario, shipping with the GSP is only 30 cents more than a direct shipment, and that's with import charges (taxes). If you're in a province such as Alberta with a lower sales tax, the GSP item will be less expensive than a direct shipment.

Yes, the GSP certainly has problems. The rollout has been haphazard, some sellers appear to have been hoodwinked into taking it on board, you can't combine shipping with it, and the process of buyers getting a refund appears to be less than straightforward. But I think it's a non-argument that it charges the equivalent of taxes and duty that are legally due on the item. Now if you want to argue that the taxation process of GSP items is less than transparent which can cause problems for some buyers, I've no quibbles with you there.

Rah. Rah. Sis. Boom. Bah.

So let say i really want to buy one of those coffee makers.. I do my ebay search and up comes 12 of them, I choose " PRICE + SHIPPING LOWEST FIRST

9 out of 12 sellers are using GSP , the 3 that are not using GSP , the lowest price for the item 116.84 and shipping is 63.10 , total 183.84

If i do choose the lowest cost to me using GSP, i will pay 125.00 for the coffee maker , 40.91 for shipping and 33.97 import fee's this is a total of 199.88

The best i can do on ebay is 183.84 NOT using GSP.. So now i check Canadian stores...

149.99 + 13 % ( for Ont. ) FREE SHIPPING .. TOTAL 169.49

pierrelebel · ‎01-06-2014

rick31797 - Your post seems to indicate it is sometimes cheaper to purchase directly from the manufacturer or distributor than from a seller on eBay, whether an American seller uses GSP or not.

I think all open minded viewers will agree with you on that point.

eBay is an important online venue. However, it would be wrong for Canadian buyers to expect sellers on eBay to always offer the lowest price available worldwide, GSP or not.

Buyers looking for the best deal need to shop carefully on or off line.

rick31797 · ‎01-06-2014

@pierrelebel wrote:
@rick31797 - Your post seems to indicate it is sometimes cheaper to purchase directly from the manufacturer or distributor than from a seller on eBay, whether an American seller uses GSP or not.

I think all open minded viewers will agree with you on that point.

eBay is an important online venue. However, it would be wrong for Canadian buyers to expect sellers on eBay to always offer the lowest price available worldwide, GSP or not.

Buyers looking for the best deal need to shop carefully on or off line.

In my opinion, when i started shopping on Ebay, Ebay and Deal went together, and i got alot of good buys on Ebay, but recently the tide is changing, its getting harder to find a good price and good shipping costs, to make it worth-while.

Most of the time its usually the shipping cost on Ebay that's the deal breaker.And you are dealing with alot of online stores that keep the prices up..

When a rookie Ebyer decides to list something but has no idea what to ask for it, he searches to see what others are asking, and many times he comes across a store selling it at an inflated price.. follow the leader..

I have found this passed year, Canadian stores are getting more competitive with ebay, they put items on sale and offer free shipping.

So now when i am buying , i usually search Canadian stores first and then check ebay out last

1049-and-bracket · ‎01-06-2014

Ok, I was unaware that Canada Post raised it's customs handling fee to $9.95. The last time I got dinged for customs fees and taxes, Canada Post was still charging $5.00 for handling and that's what I based my comment on when I stated that the GSP was charging about 50% more for import charges.

marnotom! · ‎01-06-2014

I'm not sure what your latest point has to do with the GSP, Rick, but I stopped regarding eBay as a "deal" site a long time ago and now regard it as a "hard to find elsewhere" site.

When my wife and I sold more extensively back in the day, we made a niche for ourselves by selling items that few other sellers seemed to be selling. We knew that the shipping price from Canada would be a "deal breaker" if we tried selling what was already easily obtainable from other sellers.

Perhaps this mentally has continued over into my eBay buying.

marnotom! · ‎01-06-2014

@1049-and-bracket wrote:
Ok, I was unaware that Canada Post raised it's customs handling fee to $9.95. The last time I got dinged for customs fees and taxes, Canada Post was still charging $5.00 for handling and that's what I based my comment on when I stated that the GSP was charging about 50% more for import charges.

Thanks for the clarification, 1049.

marnotom! · ‎01-06-2014

@arlene_v wrote:

For me, the major problem is that the way the charges are presented.

Breakdown of the charges is very unclear in the GSP listings.

I've been looking at hundreds of GSP listings for vintage and antique costume and fine jewelry this weekend, and the "import charges" just don't correlate with what I'm expecting .... in most cases they are much higher than a simple 13% HST.

One such example out of thousands

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Jose-Maria-Barrera-for-Avon-Mayan-Style-Clip-Earrings-NIB-1994-signed-/290995...

To avoid the impression that PB is inflating the import charges, the way this amount is calculated needs to be broken down in each and every listing using the GSP. This is only fair to the potential buyer. We should not need to come to a community board to get answers.

We are merely buyers on an online site ... not specialists in cross border taxation or NAFTA regulations ... and not once has Ebay explained to buyers what these PB charges are other than a vague assurance in listings that these charges are applied and they constitute part of the fees.

Most rational buyers want to know what part of these "Import charges" is GST/PST/HST, what part might or might not be duty, what part is insurance and what part is Pitney Bowes cut. We need to see a proper breakdown of charges, before we decide to bid or do a BIN. How am I supposed to enter a max bid on an auction style listing that uses the GSP if I don't know what all the extra charges are going to finally amount to?

In other words, transparency ...(I loathe that word, but what the heck!)

Since the country where the earrings were produced is considered "unknown" (see the Item Specifics section in the listing), it's likely that they've been schwacked with duty as well as taxes.

This site can only give estimates, too, but when I look up the amount owing in duty and Ontario HST for a C$101 piece of costume jewellery, I get an amount pretty close to what's showing on the listing page:

http://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/clearing-customs/canadian-duties/

By the way, section 3(b) of the GSP terms and conditions page for buyers goes into some detail about what import charges entail. There's a link to that page on every GSP listing.

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

It's not perfect and not tailor-made for each listing, of course, but it is somewhat of an explanation of what the "PB charges" are.

arlene_v · ‎01-06-2014

Thanks Marno .... I agree 100% that this has been schwacked (love that word! ) with duty as well, and that's why I'm a tad ....annoyed.

Marie and Jose Barrerra are US producers of jewelry

http://www.manta.com/c/mtw9gbw/jose-maria-barrera-co-ltd ...

So because sellers are not listing items correctly this sort of nonsense is happening. That is why I asked the question about duty earlier as well, because items do attract duty if this sort of casual negligence happens.

Now of course at a first glance it looks like a big conspiracy by PB, but instead it's the harried seller who puts "unknown" as place of origin into a listing, and the buyer pays. This is why there should be a breakdown of exact charges, so that they can be subject to scrutiny.

I wonder how many blunders like this are out there?

pierrelebel · ‎01-06-2014

From the federal government:

Paying duty and taxes

The Canada Border Services Agency collects duty and taxes on imported goods, on behalf of the Government of Canada.

Duty is a tariff payable on a good imported to Canada. Rates of Duty are established by the Department of Finance Canada and can vary significantly from one trade agreement to another.

No duty is payable on goods imported for personal use, if it is marked as “made in Canada, the USA, or Mexico”, or if there is no marking or labelling indicating that it was made somewhere other than Canada, the USA, or Mexico.

Most imported goods are also subject to the Federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) and Provincial Sales Tax (PST) or, in certain provinces and territories, the Harmonized Sales Tax (HST).