Petition for FUNDS RELEASE & FUNDS RELEASE REQUEST OPTION ON EBAY & PAYPAL

[luckegirl2012]

I AM CREATING THIS POST AND STARTING THIS DISCUSSION IN HOPES THAT EBAY/PAYPAL WILL CREATE A NEW FEATURE FOR SELLERS TO BE ABLE TO REQUEST RELEASE OF FUNDS FROM BUYERS ONCE DELIVERY HAS BEEN MADE AND OR POSITIVE FEEDBACK HAS BEEN LEFT AND BUYERS TO BE ABLE TO RELEASE FUNDS UPON SUCCESSFUL DELIVERY, INSPECTION AND OR THEY ARE SATISFIED WITH THE ITEM ONCE RECEIVED.

THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF ESTIMATED DELIVERY DATES AND 21 DAY WAITING PERIODS FOR NEW OR PART-TIME SELLERS (ESPECIALLY FOR CANADIANS) IS UNBALANCED AND UNFAIR. SOME PACKAGES ARRIVE LONG BEFORE ESTIMATED DATE OF DELIVERY. POSITIVE FEEDBACK IS LEFT AND FUNDS STILL DONT CLEAR IN MANY OCCASIONS FOR MORE THAN 10 DAYS AFTER.

THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS/POLICIES FOR COMPLAINTS AGAINST NON-PAYING BIDDERS AND BAD SELLERS BUT NO OPTIONS FOR  GOOD SELLERS AND BUYERS. FUNDS CAN BE HELD AND RETURNED WHEN TRANSACTIONS GO BAD, BUT FUNDS CANNOT BE RELEASED WHEN TRANSACTIONS GO GOOD UNTIL EBAY OR PAYPAL ALLOW THEM TO BE. 

EBAY GETS THEIR FEES, PAYPAL GETS THEIR FEES AND BUYERS GET THEIR ITEMS WHILE THE SELLER IS LEFT WAITING FOR THEIR FUNDS UNTIL EBAY/PAYPAL SEES FIT BY USE OF AN ESTIMATED DATE. CANADAPOST DOES NOT RECEIVE THE SAME RULES AS UPS (ARE THEY FORCING OR TRYING TO CONVINCE US TO CHOOSE UPS?) EVEN THOUGH THEIR COMPANIES ARE JUST AS REPUTABLE FOR CANADIANS . I AM HOPING THAT BY CREATING THIS POST I CAN BRING ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER AND CONVINCE EBAY THAT THEY SHOULD ADD THIS FEATURE OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THE EBAY COMMUNITY (IT MAKES SENSE).

PLEASE IF YOU AGREE OR EVEN DISAGREE WITH MY POST PROVIDE A RESPONSE OR SOME OF YOUR OWN IDEAS AND COMMENTS. 

THANX FOR YOUR TIME

[rose-dee]

I've learned from personal experience never to trust the banks.

They will tell you one thing and do another if they can get away with it.

Unless you watch them every single step of the way they will profit where they can even it is a little (or a lot) shady.

Why would paypal not be the same?  

I'm afraid I must disagree and say that in my opinion this is a non-issue.  Paypal provides a reliable service, and they make money from that service.  Their fees aren't generally what I would consider outrageous.  We use their service to streamline our business (and sometimes personal) dealings, and I feel as long as that continues, I have no problem with Paypal earning interest. 

Besides, the interest earned on temporary funds these days is so pitifully low that it's no wonder Paypal can be "generous" and say the money is held in an interest-free fund.  You'll note that the quote "Poco" provided states "PayPal has always stored balances (including held balances) in FDIC-insured bank accounts".  This is important, as it means sellers' temporarily held funds are insured in the event of Paypal's default or bankruptcy, etc. (similar to CDIC insurance). 

Paypal seems to refund buyers promptly in problematic transactions on eBay, and judging from comments on these boards their customer service is miles above eBay's.  A decently run banking service with reasonable transaction rates that makes money for its shareholders - Paypal is one of the few online services that I don'thave much criticism about.  At least they don't charge a monthly fee for holding your money in their accounts as most banks do. 

As I said, the seller holdback is a form of insurance that ultimate protects buyers (at no cost to them), so I don't mind if Paypal does play with that money for a while.  It's better than having to pay a user fee or subscription fee as a buyer to access the eBay site in order to provide an insurance fund for fraudulent transactions.  

If you dig deeply enough on the internet you can probably find Paypal's financial statements, etc., and data dealing with eBay seller holdbacks specifically, to see if "Poco" is correct.  I suspect that statement by Paypal is still valid, since many of their shareholders must be "listening" all the time. 

To me, it's moot -- Paypal's service is satisfactory, and as long as they aren't clawing back huge fees, I really don't have a problem if it turned out that they earned a lot of money on holdbacks.  Now the Royal Bank and its shenanigans may be a different story...

[anguscoinshop]

ebay/paypal holding the funds for 21 days while the buyer has the item, i would call it ebay/paypal legalizing shoplifting.

That's what i told a phone rep, he didn't ague with me.

[rose-dee]

To correct my post above: The quote 'Poco' provided actually says that Paypal transfers an equivalent amount into an interest-free fund, not the actual holdback funds themselves. 

    "[...] move the equivalent amount of money of our total “held balances” to a non-interest bearing account."

The reason seems obvious to me - the holdback funds are, strictly speaking, held in trust and are not Paypal's to transfer around. 

[rose-dee]

ebay/paypal holding the funds for 21 days while the buyer has the item, i would call it ebay/paypal legalizing shoplifting.

That's what i told a phone rep, he didn't ague with me.

Would you say the same if you purchased a $100 item from a brand new eBay seller who was not "insured" by Paypal's holdbacks and subsequently disappeared off the eBay site with your money?  Would you even want such a seller to be attracted to eBay?  I think that's effectively what was happening before the holdbacks on new sellers.  No wonder the phone rep was speechless.

This sort of holdback is not much different from the hold placed on personal cheques by ordinary banks, some of which will hold up release of funds for 7 to 10 days.  Same reason: fraud protection. 

[rose-dee]

Angus - With all due respect, I have to point to this thread and your Post #16 in which you recommend the defrauded buyer only deal with established eBay sellers in future:

http://community.ebay.ca/topic/Buyer-Central/Scammed-After-Interac/4000009107

This experience demonstrates clearly why Paypal has new seller holdbacks to protect buyers.  Evidently this scamming seller knew enough to avoid Paypal for that reason, but the unfortunate buyer didn't realize that not using Paypal was an invitation to disaster. 

[i*m-still-here]

rose:  Whether or not paypal invests the funds it holds is a non-issue to me as well.

Also, I could care less about the hold because I can wait for the money.

A fleeting observation was dragged out and made into something bigger than it deserved to be until it had only a slight resemblance to my thoughts on the subject.

I was just being nice and trying to respond politely while someone was trying to corner me and argue.

Nothing more.

It was just a thought ........... a possibility........ and stemmed from the observation that anyone can pay me via paypal or just send money at a whim, and those funds have never been held.

However, when I use a baby ebay id the funds are held for 21 days.

That's the inconsistency I was speculating about.

It's the same paypal account so why the inconsistency?

[rose-dee]

However, when I use a baby ebay id the funds are held for 21 days.

That's the inconsistency I was speculating about.

It's the same paypal account so why the inconsistency? 

Just for the sake of discussion, I'd say that part of the answer may be in your question.  Although it's the same Paypal account, I assume the "baby" eBay ID is new and different from your usual, established ID? 

Sellers used to pop on and off this site, changing their IDs to hide previous inappropriate (or downright fraudulent) selling behaviour, until eBay/Paypal had to do something about it. 

The 21 day holdback accomplished two things: 1) it prevented fly-by-night scamming sellers from running off with buyers' money before delivery of an item; and 2) it discouraged people from running to new eBay IDs every time they got into trouble with an old one.  Currently anyone setting up a new eBay ID knows he/she will have to deal with this holdback annoyance, which in turn is a deterrent to those who might frivolously taking on new IDs. 

As you've pointed out, it is a pain to deal with, but I think eBay had to treat every new eBay ID in the same way, regardless of the owner's past Paypal history. 

[i*m-still-here]

Hi Rose.   Yes, all that is true, but it's not what I'm saying.

Sellers with new paypal accounts, poor credit ratings, a spotty history on paypal may be the ones using baby ebay ids, but all kinds of sellers use new ids for selling.

Has anyone had a hold put on money other than when it involves a baby ebay id?

I haven't.

In other words, there are lot of transactions which are much higher risk to paypal but the money is not held.

That's what I'm saying.

[pierrelebel]

"In other words, there are lot of transactions which are much higher risk to paypal but the money is not held. That's what I'm saying."

You have no knowledge of money being held by PayPal for accounts other than new accounts. OK.

That does not mean PayPal does not withhold money for what they perceive to be "risky" transactions, as per their published policy. It simply means you personally have no such knowledge.

On the other hand, I know of instances when money was withheld for 21 days for long standing eBay sellers, mostly in cases where the transactions were for relatively expensive items different from the usual items sold by the sellers (for example, a hockey card dealers (average sale $5) listing and selling an expensive camera.

[i*m-still-here]

So, for example, I regularly get money from buyers via paypal in the range of $500-$1,000 and it has never been held.

A few days ago a buyer from Taiwan sent me $800 and the money was immediately available even though that was an extremely high risk transaction.

However, when I sell a $10 item via a baby eBay account the money is held for 21 days.

Accoring to the post above, now It also seems that ebay holds funds for high priced items. (Although they have never held such funds in my case as long as I'm not selling on a baby ebay id.)

What I'm saying is that to me it seems like the hold is all about eBay and not about the actual risk factor.

Has anyone every had a hold put on PayPal funds other than when it was from an ebay sale using a baby id?

[pierrelebel]

" It also seems that ebay holds funds for high priced items"

NO NO NO.

Please read the words in their context.

New sellers have funds withheld.

Experienced sellers receiving unusually large payments may have their funds withheld.  Obviously, sellers regularly selling items for $500 - $1000 will not be affected when receiving similar payments. 

[i*m-still-here]

You need to read my posts much more carefully before you respond.  I did not misquote your post.

New ebay sellers have funds held for 21 days.

Apparently, experienced eBay sellers may have funds held when the sums are UNUSUALLY high, but I have never experienced this.  I'll take your word for it and in any case it has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand.

However, these things only occur on eBay.

I can be a new seller on other venues or not use a venue to sell, and I can receive funds in excess of $1,000, but this money is released to me immediately.

That is the point.

[oldboots1]

So is the hold going to stay on my account if my sales are in Canada? Do I have to reach $250 US sales to have the hold removed? Is this not some kind of monetary racism?  I've been an Ebay member for 13 years. I have been a PayPal client for just as many. (I have a business & have money sent to me all the time without holds DOH!)  Why is this not taken into account?  Did we not sign disclosure agreements between the 2 entities??? Will I ever be hold free?!!!!

[rykkm]

I suppose what it boils down to is, "Do you believe Ebay/Paypal is being truthful when they state that the held funds are being held in a non-interest bearing escrow or trust account?". 

If I went back to selling, I would essentially be starting from scratch, despite having sold items before. 21 days is a long time to hold funds, especially if you are a volume seller and dont have a credit line established with your suppliers. That could cause cash flow issues under certain circumstances. I think it is a bit long of a period to hold funds, but in some ways I do understand it. But I'm not the one waiting on funds to be released, and my perspective might be different then.

[pierrelebel]

"I think it is a bit long of a period to hold funds,"

Some sellers may want to inquire with their regular bank about obtaining a credit card "merchant account" which would allow them to accept credit card payment on eBay instead of using PayPal.

1) check their fees for "card not present" (Internet) transactions

2) check their withholding practices

[marnotom!]

Makes me wonder how some sellers would function in the eBay of old when snail-mailed payments were a lot more prevalent.

[reallynicestamps]

On the other hand, I know of instances when money was withheld for 21 days for long standing eBay sellers, mostly in cases where the transactions were for relatively expensive items different from the usual items sold by the sellers

It happened to me when I started selling expensive ($75 to $200) philatelic literature on an account that I had been using to sell -- gosh, I forget what, dress patterns maybe?

Yeah marnotom!-- kids today. They don't know what it was like for us, snail mail payments by personal US cheques that took two weeks to clear. And then having to hand crank the computer whenever the browser slowed down. And carrying the parcels to the post office on foot, through ten feet of snow - in July. And making our own paper for wrapping. To say nothing of all the effort we put in to blowing up each individual bubble in our personally crafted bubble wrap. They just don't know they're born!

[wend_mcbr]

yes i agree with you 100% this is the second time ive had a dispute with paypal. I sold four items and in order to ship right away i had to put the postage up first which was about 30.00 in the same week i sold 2 more which the postage will be 40.00 now ebay said paypal would release the funds for postage since i cannot print a shipping label from canada. unless i have the money on my credit card or bank account meanwhile i have a 200.00+ balance in my paypal account. and they are taking a percentage of postage that thei9r not even paying. and what irks me the most the customer paid for postage first. and ebay/paypal shipping fees from canada are so inflated its unreal. this has forced me not to sell on ebay nomore. and i will close my account once my funds are released. to bad .

[wend_mcbr]

thats all good but what about when ebay says its ok to release your funds and paypal just ignores them?

[wend_mcbr]

I believe what the last person said about what paypal is doing with the money for 21 days i believe these policies are in place for a reason but when customer receives their item and are happy with it paypal should be releasing our money. why aren't they cause their using it for their own gain.