Canada Post Possible Stike

[stanley613]

What happens now that orders are in the mail with a possible expected delivery date of September 30 and early October, what happens if not received there is no way of knowing whether these items will be received after strike is over.  Will eBay delay delivery date?

[reveur*]

Every year CUPW strikes, is another year businesses start using other couriers and sticking with them. The union and Canada Post are both on the decline. Without CP, there is no union, etc.

[momcqueen]

There is a limit to peoples’ patience and tolerance for these types of actions no matter how sympathic they may have been to start.

A smart leader can measure that pulse. A smart leader can do more than yell battle cries. A smart leader knows when to make concessions to prevent the unnecessary slaughter of his soldiers.

All this is obvious. Labour negotiations aren’t for bull elephants who only know two things: charge and trumpet. Labour negotiations require the calculated intelligence, light touch and delicate step of a crane.

[lachnrd]

These workers should be happy to have a job. I’m sure Some GM employees will gladly take some of those jobs.

[momcqueen]

Precisely. Big business will shun Canada Post altogether for being unreliable with ongoing labour action. Leaving only small online sellers and grannies sending cookies. Then Canada Post stops being profitable. If there’s this much hue and cry over raises not grandiose enough today, imagine the day when pay cuts and benefit reductions are on the table tomorrow.

[reallynicestamps]

@muscoviteman
Even a $20 a week gain makes up for losing a 1G settlement offer bonus in only a year.

That’s about 50 cents an hour, and $1040 annually. More than the bonus and it continues every year and makes a difference to eventual CPP payout.

@ypdc_dennis
the rates have been approved by parliament.
Only the first Letterpost rate (85c -> 90c)  and the Registered rate are approved by Parliament. Canada Post can set other rates as they wish.

@reveur*
he union encouraging its members and "allies" to keep demonstrating and using "peaceful" civil disobedience tactics.
If that translates as work to rule, Canada Post management might learn how much more work is being done than the posties are actually being paid for.
It may mean picketing. It may mean refusing overtime— although that is hard for younger workers who have mortgages.

forcing them not only to pay union dues,
Well, technically. Workers are not required to join the union or pay union dues. However, they do have to pay the equivalent of dues - usually to another union (generally religion based) or charity.
NB- my knowledge of labour law dates back to my university days in the late 60's.

[reveur*]

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@momcqueen wrote:
There is a limit to peoples’ patience and tolerance for these types of actions no matter how sympathic they may have been to start.

A smart leader can measure that pulse. A smart leader can do more than yell battle cries. A smart leader knows when to make concessions to prevent the unnecessary slaughter of his soldiers.

All this is obvious. Labour negotiations aren’t for bull elephants who only know two things: charge and trumpet. Labour negotiations require the calculated intelligence, light touch and delicate step of a crane.

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I agree with this. However, this isn't the case with most people in power. You see good leaders and they are the ones that truly pave the way and make for positive change, for all people, not just a select lucky group. The problem here is that both sides are unwilling to move and one will get shot in the foot. In this case, it will be CUPW and its members, without a doubt. The deflection of public harm during the strike and display of arrogance by the union head has led to a serious decline in public support, alongside many members I am sure of  (but unfortunately they don't really have a voice to express this). Canada Post has been able to cleverly manipulate this situation with its statements on their website, making the CUPW look tremendously bad. If the backlog isn't cleared in record time, it will only support their claims and make the union look even worse, alongside supporting any claims made in the 3 hearings in court. What do you think the outcome of this will be? It's almost too predictable. The stomping of the feet and throwing "anarchistic" rebellions that maybe worked like 50 years ago will go nowhere today and only harm the workers furthermore.

[momcqueen]

I hope they do.

I want my lettercarriers to get what they need and deserve through mediation and binding arbitration but it doesn’t have to be accomplished in a way that steals food from my table.

[hlmacdon]

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@reveur* wrote:

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I have 4 EXPRESS shipments from the states from the last 4 or so weeks whose status has not yet changed. I have an additional 3 shipments within Canada coming to me whose status is still "delayed due to labor dispute" for the last 2 weeks or so. 

Now, question: if someone from the states ships usps express and the customer pays like $70 for shipping, who do you go to to dispute the shipping costs? the seller? usps? canada post?

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Any implied or stated service guarantees unfortunately go out the window when acts of god, acts of Marxists, etc result in service disruptions like this. At this stage you just hope you actually get you product. The shipper has no recourse as neither the shipper nor the sending service can do anything about the situation. 

[reveur*]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

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@reveur* wrote:

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I have 4 EXPRESS shipments from the states from the last 4 or so weeks whose status has not yet changed. I have an additional 3 shipments within Canada coming to me whose status is still "delayed due to labor dispute" for the last 2 weeks or so. 

Now, question: if someone from the states ships usps express and the customer pays like $70 for shipping, who do you go to to dispute the shipping costs? the seller? usps? canada post?

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Any implied or stated service guarantees unfortunately go out the window when acts of god, acts of Marxists, etc result in service disruptions like this. At this stage you just hope you actually get you product. The shipper has no recourse as neither the shipper nor the sending service can do anything about the situation. 

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Well at least ebay back money guarantee helps. For my buyers, when I was having issues with parcels due the strike, I communicated every step of the way. Some parcels I mailed out Nov 9 have just now arrived and been delivered using expedited and express services. Communication is the key in these situations. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of cheap postal services, no matter what courier we choose. When I was shipping within the USA, the shipping was like $10 for a large box parcel that got delivered within 2 days. Expedited here will cost you around $16-28 depending on province and usually take over a week. 

[hlmacdon]

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@momcqueen wrote:
Any smart negotiator considers all angles including necessary actions to take to not make his own people the most hated union members of all time by the public — instead of appreciated for the job they do by the people they are paid to serve — through acts of protest and civil disobedience. If Canada Post is a toxic workplace now, how is it going to improve when every Canadian starts to hate CUPW and their workers as much as CUPW union leadership hates to compromise? What do you think happens to CUPW when the general population is so sick and tired and disgusted by these shenanigans that they start throwing those rocks being hurled right back where they came from?

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That is the thing. You don't have a smart negotiator here. You have a typical ideologically driven zealot espousing Marxist ideology and putting his own beliefs ahead of the interests of the workers so any hope of rationality goes out the window. When you see individuals start employing the same sort of language that terrorists use to justify their actions you can see why a negotiation process is entirely useless. There is no actual intent to work towards a mutually agreeable compromise. It is only a  take, take, take approach because the struggle is real.

You can't bargain with that sort of ideology when the other party fundamentally sees the opposition as inherently corrupt, exploitative, etc. If you want to advance the interests and well being of those you represent you have to win over the support of other stakeholders involved. The union only sees this as a war between the worker and the employer, public and other end users be damned.

[ricarmic]

If my memory serves, our problems are likely not yet over. As I recall last time, I had more problems after they were legislated back in terms of INR, slow deliveries etc. It will depend on what civil disobedience ends up being interpreted as this time around.

I'm trying to keep my optimistic hat on. I've asked Tyler in the weekly chat if they know their plans going forward regarding support for us until things are back to normal.....whenever that might be!!!!

[hlmacdon]

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@ricarmic wrote:

If my memory serves, our problems are likely not yet over. As I recall last time, I had more problems after they were legislated back in terms of INR, slow deliveries etc. It will depend on what civil disobedience ends up being interpreted as this time around.

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Well lets just say I certainly would avoid shipping anything in ebay branded shipping supplies via Canada Post for the first few weeks.  More likely we'll see refusal to work overtime, packages getting scanned as out for delivery then not actually delivered till days later, taking forever to unload containers, that sort of thing. What I will say is that my local carriers have conducted themselves professionally through this strike as well as the previous negotiations.

[momcqueen]

Well, I don't know. I have a feeling you're mostly jesting but any postal employees who start stomping the ebay-branded boxes 'just because' won't find themselves having to worry about being ordered back-to-work for long because they'd be fired. I'm sure management is on high alert for that sort of thing at present and in the foreseeable future. 

I only slather that stuff on my tracked (and insured) items anyway, preferring the domestic lettermail to go incognito. 

On the other hand, if that were to actually start happening, I'd raise such an unholy stink that it would make the last stink seem not so bad.

[widgetc]

As I figured things will drag on past the Christmas shopping season:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/expect-lengthy-delays-for-parcel-delivery-canada-post-1.4195012

The shopping season will be long over before the public has confidence in the mail again.

[widgetc]

In particular from the announcement today:

"“Existing backlogs are expected to worsen this week due to high volumes from Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales,”

"In a notice on its website, Canada Post said parcel deliveries will continue, but will be delayed “during the peak holiday season and into January, 2019."

"If you’re expecting a parcel from another country, internationally shipped items may experience delays stretching into March, 2019, Canada Post said."

"The letter mail backlog “should be cleared and deliveries current before Dec. 25,” Canada Post said."

[momcqueen]

I hope not. As I’ve said elsewhere on the board, the news that strikes were ending with back-to-work legislation seemed enough to restore sales to almost-normal pace for this time of year. That will sour, however, if parcel delivery is delayed past Christmas but I don’t think the rage at that would be directed at me. Or at least not primarily me.

[momcqueen]

That is, almost normal for this week. Nothing can compensate for the weeks wasted.

[reveur*]

So looks like I'm getting my express shipments from the states in March 2019.

Great! Who is to believe anymore? I have lost total faith in our postal service and the union this go around. To diminish how it impacts people is the cherry on top.

[ypdc_dennis]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

@ypdc_dennis
the rates have been approved by parliament.
Only the first Letterpost rate (85c -> 90c)  and the Registered rate are approved by Parliament. Canada Post can set other rates as they wish.

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All stamp rates for lettermail/letterpost (not just the basic rate)  are baked into the Canada Post regulations (plus, as you say, the registered mail rate).

Metered mail (as long as it not higher than the stamp rate) and parcel rates are set as CPC wishes.

Stamps:

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2018/2018-06-23/html/reg1-eng.html

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2018/2018-06-23/html/reg2-eng.html

Registered:

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2018/2018-06-23/html/reg3-eng.html

UPU rule changes:

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2018/2018-06-23/html/reg4-eng.html

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[grharris-3]

So as an eBay buyer, I just ordered a few things from the UK.  Normally, eBay allows you to open a "item not received" claim up to 30 days past the expected delivery date.    The expected delivery date shows up as mid-December, but with the strike it may not arrive until March.  How do I protect myself against not receiving item without negatively affecting the seller if it doesn't arrive within 30 days of the expected delivery date?