Ebay's Money Back Guarantee + US Postal issues = Free merchandise for buyers.

[justbrostrading]

Hi there! We were recently forced to refund a buyer for an item still in transit (which they received 2 days later), while we were trying to smooth things over with the buyer. Ebay's suggestion (after having denied our request for reimbursment), was to message and invoice the buyer (which they've continually ignored).

We now have half a dozen other similar cases in the making. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? We'd like to avoid losing more money AND the hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise presently lost in that mess of a sorting facility in Chicago.

Thanks! 

[ricarmic]

These are my basic form letters that I use, adjusted as necessary use whatever works for you...

WHEN A CASE IS OPENED:

(You will need to send this as a contact buyer it does not fit within the case, I put a message in the case that a full note is coming in ebay messaging. As well, the date is 1 day before the warning date, experience taught me that if they say June 18th they mean 1 minute after midnight on June 18th, so we need to refund on the 17th to avoid automagic refunds)

====================================================================

Hi BUYERNAME! I am sorry to hear that the stamps have not yet arrived. I trust you got my note advising that they were shipped on Friday May 21st?

I definitely share your frustration with the postal delays! Unfortunately the COVID-19 pandemic is still affecting a lot of shipments with no rhyme nor reason as to which ones are affected. There is not a tracking number for these items, unfortunately tracking costs are high here in Canada and I’ve shipped successfully to you in the past, although it was a while ago now. I have had a number of shipments to your area taking longer than normal in the last few weeks, I am not certain why. The good news is that ever since COVID began, my package loss rate has remained below 1/2 of 1% so over 99.5% of the time the packages do eventually arrive.

Now that cases have been opened the only options eBay gives me are to send a message or refund and irregardless of messages, I have to refund by Thursday June 17th. If it is ok by you, I will wait to refund until Thursday June 17. If they arrive before then, you can just close the cases. If they don't arrive by the 17th, I will refund out of my own funds. There is a very very good chance it will arrive after that, and if it does please let me know and I’ll send another invoice so you can pay again (this is my full time job, small parcels like this are not insured so I am out 100% if they do not arrive).

Thank you very much for your patience during all of this, let me know if you are ok with this plan, and I hope you have a great day!!! RICARMIC (Ron)

WHEN A CASE IS NOT YET OPENED:

===================================

Hi BUYERNAME! I am sorry to hear that the stamps have not yet arrived, I hope you received my note advising that they were mailed on Wed March 3rd.

I definitely share your frustration with the postal delays! Unfortunately the COVID-19 pandemic is still affecting a lot of shipments, especially those going overseas. Unfortunately it is not uncommon anymore for shipments from here in Canada to folks in Australia to take up to 10 to 12 weeks to arrive. The weird part is that some shipments go fast and some go very very slow, with no rhyme nor reason as to which are affected! The good news is that ever since COVID began, my package loss rate has remained below 1/2 of 1% so over 99.5% of the time the packages do eventually arrive.

I would really appreciate it if you don’t mind waiting another couple weeks or so before we decide the package is lost and I refund your money, but I will be ok whenever you decide. If it gets to the point that you think it has been long enough, please just open an item not received case and I will refund your money out of my own funds. Assuming the parcel does arrive after that, let me know and I’ll send another invoice so you can pay again (this is my full time job, small parcels like this are not insured so I am out 100% if they do not arrive).

Thank you very much for your patience during all of this, and I hope you have a great day!!! RICARMIC (Ron)

[4topnotes]

There is no solution !  Ebay thinks we can refund endlessly and most customers have now figured out that they can grab the items and collect what they paid for. 

I just had to refund a guy who CLEARLY told me he got the item..  

We will all end up sinking .. 

[marnotom!]

Did you clearly inform the "guy" that the refund was coming out of your own pocket?  Some buyers are under the impression that this sort of thing is dealt with with a magic money pot eBay has kicking around.

[ricarmic]

Other suggestions for after the fact:

-block the buyer

-report the buyer even if it was not tracked (the last buyer I reported for an untracked package was immediately suspended so it does matter) 

-keep the buyers address/information in a "lost packages/problem buyers" folder for future reference. This can help avoid repeat offenders. They'll often just use a different name same address. I'm lucky because my shipping process involves a search component that will sometimes automagically highlight them.

[reallynicestamps]

You have the buyer's contact information.

Send them a cheery Message that you see the purchase was delivered, and ask for a return of the refund.

If you can add a Paypal invoice for the amount of the refund.

[beavosorus]

I am in a similar spot.  I have an item sitting in Chicago for nearly 3 weeks now, and the buyer wants a refund/discount.  I am not liking how this is going.  They opened a case with Ebay for item not recieved.

[hlmacdon]

@pjcdn2005 had posted this link here in another thread. The seller's messages with ebay provided guidance for this situation. Worth a look at this and similiar threads where others may be sharing their outcomes from an appeal of this nature. That seems like the only real avenue as the ISC doesn't have to respond to any missing mail searches within a timeline any buyer will be patient enough to wait out, regardless of who requests it (USPS or Canada Post).

[justbrostrading]

I've spoken to multiple CS reps who have confirmed that if we now VOLUNTARILY refund the buyer after a case is opened and the item shows as delivered within 30 days, we can submit an appeal for reimbursment from Ebay. However, there is no option for appeal if the case gets to the point where the buyer can "ask Ebay to step in" and Ebay automatically applies a refund.

[justbrostrading]

Yes, multiple friendly messages and invoices have been ignored. Now that he's aware Ebay will not enforce the Repayment, he's got no incentive. 

[justbrostrading]

I've recently discovered a buyer's mentality re: "Ebay's Money Back Guarantee" as well. A buyer told me he didn't care about the late delivery as he'll "just get the money back from Ebay". I took delight in informing him of the true source of "Ebay's refund". 😉

[justbrostrading]

I appreciate the link. I've also spoken to multiple CS reps who have informed me of the voluntary refund / appeal for reimbursment rule, however, I'm still apprehensive.

[fergua3]

i have to 'voluntarily' refund a buyer today, $150US.  If the item gets delivered in the next 30 days, how do i go about filing an appeal with Ebay?

[reallynicestamps]

tyler@ebay 

@justbrostrading

I've spoken to multiple CS reps who have confirmed that if we now VOLUNTARILY refund the buyer after a case is opened and the item shows as delivered within 30 days, we can submit an appeal for reimbursment from Ebay. However, there is no option for appeal if the case gets to the point where the buyer can "ask Ebay to step in" and Ebay automatically applies a refund.

Tyler, could you confirm this and point to the link that helps open this appeal mechanism.

I can see the thinking, eBay wants the buyer experience to be friendly, and since the shipment in these cases really has not been delivered, the seller is being encouraged to cooperate.

The ability to get the refund returned when the fault is not the seller's (although the responsibility is) would be a great comfort to sellers trying to promote good customer relations.

[reallynicestamps]

I've spoken to multiple CS reps who have confirmed that if we now VOLUNTARILY refund the buyer after a case is opened and the item shows as delivered within 30 days, we can submit an appeal for reimbursment from Ebay. However, there is no option for appeal if the case gets to the point where the buyer can "ask Ebay to step in" and Ebay automatically applies a refund.

Tyler, could you confirm this and point to the link that helps open this appeal mechanism.

I can see the thinking, eBay wants the buyer experience to be friendly, and since the shipment in these cases really has not been delivered, the seller is being encouraged to cooperate.

The ability to get the refund returned when the fault is not the seller's (although the responsibility is) would be a great comfort to sellers trying to promote good customer relations.

[marnotom!]

This help page on the seller appeal process mentions the seller obtaining proof that a refund was issued before the buyer’s case was closed:

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item-...

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

---

@4topnotes wrote:

There is no solution !  Ebay thinks we can refund endlessly and most customers have now figured out that they can grab the items and collect what they paid for. 

I just had to refund a guy who CLEARLY told me he got the item..  

We will all end up sinking .. 

---

It's most likely not helping that eBay's estimated times do not match the information that CP displays.

There can be also major variances for what a seller in one place may show compared to a similar seller located close by.

My items are routed from Calgary to Richmond to LAX and standard is 4 to 5 business days.

See below what a buyer is seeing. X = Varies

 Beverly Hills, CA 90210            eBay             CP

            Small Packet Air               5-11                 X

            USA Tracked                      5-8                10

              Expedited                         5-10                7

Arlington, VA    22210                 eBay             CP

            Small Packet Air               5-11                 X

            USA Tracked                      5-8                10

              Expedited                         5-10                7

Danube, MN 56230                  eBay             CP

            Small Packet Air               5-11                 X

            USA Tracked                      5-8                10

              Expedited                         5-10                7

A seller in Saskatoon shows the same 5 to 10 business days by Expedited (-1 day for processing time). CP states 8.

Routinely to ship from Saskatoon to Calgary is 4 to 5 days from personal experience.

Another seller in Edmonton shows same transit time as above.

Sellers are having to inflate tracking to have a little bit of protection. That's not even 100% perfect.

-Lotz

[hlmacdon]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

---

Sellers are having to inflate tracking to have a little bit of protection. That's not even 100% perfect.

-Lotz

---

Choosing a shipping "service" option that has a longer maximum eta is well worth considering while weighing the potential impact on sales. Couriers are also an option as they don't get hit with the same delays unless customs takes a particular interest in a package.  If it is a higher value item I would definitely lean towards courier over postal. For those lucky enough to be close enough to the border areas that have a USPS forwarder I would go that route as direct import bypasses the flow into the ISC facilities as they go through the land crossing and direct to a USPS post office. 

It's good to see that Ebay now has a process in place for this, but realistically 30 days might not even be enough buffer for the stuff routing through the Chicago facility. 

[fergua3]

I heard from the buyer i'm refunding $150US today.  He contacted the USPS to ask why his package hadn't been delivered or even moved for over a month.

The response he got from USPS was that it was not yet in the country, even though USPS own tracking shows that it is sitting at their USPS facility in Chicago and has been for over a month (since May 19).  So from this response it seems clear USPS is not planning on putting any effort into finding people's lost merchandise.

[itolduandso]

There is another potential protection that may apply for standard economy shipments - the insurance through your shipper or carrier.

Example:  Sold on June 1st and shipped on June 1st through shipper with private carrier shipping insurance.  Most buyers will wait for 10-14 days for standard shipments. The private carrier insurance in this case kicks in if package is lost or assumed if all points are true:

1) it was not received by the buyer

  AND

2) item wasn't delivered (tracking shows item still in transit, or shows item delivery attempted or delivered

AND

3) buyer has to submit official claim of non-delivery (that is either an affidavit form -OR- copy of the official communication with the buyer on ebay platform .... that is copy of messages or case details. If the buyer opens INR case which results to chargeback from ebay, you provide the insurance company the copy of that message as well about the chargeback issued to buyer.

In any case. I understand this solve the situation when you send non-tracked packages because non-tracked doesn't include any insurance. However, with non-tracked packages you never know the package was delivered. Unless the buyer is honest and tells you the non-tracked package has arrived (albeit late) and willing to send you the money, you are out of money.

The insurance case here only describes the fully tracked scenario.  At least my insurance company didn't ask for packages to be confirmed-delivered (with signature) but it may vary from insurance to insurance so you may need to check on that. (In this day and age the signature option may not be available with all carriers or in all regions).

[itolduandso]

What do you mean by "inflate tracking".

When I go ship an item I have selection of delivery methods that ebay thinks are appropriate. The Economy shipping method says 10 days. I didn't see there an option to say the package is going by a boat and will take 20-30 days to deliver (even if there was an option showing in Ebay shipping methods, buyers will unlikely to buy from me and some wouyld even report me to ebay suggesting I am Chinese seller in disquise drop-shipping items).

How do you control the shipping times that show to buyer is a puzzle to me. Ebay is setting the quick delivery standards and I don't have much control.

Also, I was told by some ebay CS (some are however conflicting) that selling on ebay.COM as Canadian buyer will show the Canadian delivery options, however, the delivery times will be based on the USA postal service standards for delivery times and if selling on ebay.CA as Canadia buyer, the Canadian delivery options will show the Canadian postal service standards for delivery times.

Can somebody verify if this is true?  Every time I speak with a different CS I get a different answer.