I think I've got the scammer buyer.

[e.j.kim]

So I've shipped the item by Letter-Mail to the buyer in the states a month ago but the buyer now claims that he didn't receive the item. It's really strange that I've shipped many items to US including Puerto Rico with the same shipping method but I've never heard anyone who claimed that they didn't receive the item except this one(Cle Elum, Washington). Another strange thing is that the buyer doesn't have any feedback except the one from me even though he's been a member for 3 years.

I don't ship multiple items a day and the items shipping to US I always drop them off at the Post Office, so I get receipts with postal codes.

Last week, the buyer sent me a message saying he didn't receive the item and now he opened the request. I just sent the message to the buyer to give more the time. It seems like the guy knows the process to get the money. Funny thing is it's only worth $14. Do scammers trick sellers only to get $14? How pathetic.

I'm gonna lose it, am I? It's too bad because I just became a top rated seller.

I was going to contact to ebay but then from the information I googled it seems like it's just waste of time. I mean if they are going to support buyers 100%, then why bother.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

My personal opinion is if a buyer chooses/pays for a service that is untracked which is entirely at their discretion and a seller can prove that the parcel was actually dropped off, the buyer should share in the blame of a package not arriving. Once the package is out of a sellers hands, the seller has ZERO control of that package. It's not like the seller could travel to their location and confirm every step along the way that everything was done properly.

-CM

[pjcdn2005]

Why do you think you lost your trs status?  Your listings still have the badge.

[retroman_studios]

If a buyer has been inactive or never bought anything, eBay will not display older feedback after a few months or so.

For example, if your buyer signed up three years ago, bought a bunch of stuff and got feedback, then didn't buy anything till now, the feedback number will still show, but the actual feedback won't, as eBay only shows stats going back so far, same for seller's.

[momcqueen]

That’s incorrect. You might be thinking of the details of the transactions which become less forthcoming after 60 or 90 days but feedback always remains visible.

Some people create accounts and buy stuff but never leave feedback so they never receive feedback. Some people create accounts and bid unsuccessfully and then never win so they don’t complete a transaction. Some people create a new account simply to post on the Discussion Boards so it has no associated feedback as a buyer or seller for that reason.

Having an account that’s three years old without feedback is a little odd but I see it frequently as I serve more infrequent or Guest buyers than I do regular, veteran ones.

It’s not necessarily a sign of nefarious intent or a hacked account. Especially over $14.

[momcqueen]

Case in point. My Feedback Left For Others. Sixteen pages of it viewed 200 at a time and this is the first feedback that I left dating back to when I opened this account in May of 2006:

“ -- Positive feedback rating Super quick to ship. I had exactly what I ordered (and expected) in a few days. Seller: biggeek-computers (Yellow shooting star icon for feedback score in between 10,000 to 24,999) More than a year ago”

This is visible to anyone publicly, regardless of whether they’re logged into any account on eBay.

Feedback never goes away.

[femmefan1946]

@marnotom!

(Although there are many posts from buyers who, for some reason, are upset that their sellers didn't provide them with tracking numbers.) 

It's emotional. Quite often those buyers are scared of buying online or have been cheated in the past.

But, I agree, tracking is not useful for buyers.

I have been attacked for saying that by people who find it  an onerous task to go to the PO to pick up a parcel, since the carrier will leave a Notice about where and when the buyer can receive it should he not be home.

Tracking is actually bad for buyers. We see posts about tracked parcels that show they have been delivered -- but the parcel was stolen from the porch. And apparently USPS doesn't support NO SAFE DROP LABELLING.
Then there seem to be actual scams where the parcel tracks to a completely different address. I have no idea how that works.

The point is, with untracked mail a scamming buyer is in the catbird seat. *cough* Cookie Jar Insurance*cough* . While tracking is Seller Protection, albeit expensive.

[hlmacdon]

---

@femmefan1946 wrote:

And apparently USPS doesn't support NO SAFE DROP LABELLING.
The point is, with untracked mail a scamming buyer is in the catbird seat. *cough* Cookie Jar Insurance*cough* . While tracking is Seller Protection, albeit expensive.

---

The USPS equivalent is "Hold for pickup" and it is a no-fee add on for USPS postage. You might try changing labelling to that effect or sourcing a label that states such. Another option is to use Hold For: XYZ Buyer Name in the address line. On the USPS labels Hold for Pickup appears directly above the address in the label layouts and retailers/sellers will often use the Hold For in recipient name line as a friendly reminder to the postie. 

Regardless of perceived usability tracking is expected by US buyers and they have a tendency to panic without as tracking is on just about everything that gets shipped within the US. That being said it doesn't protect you from a smarter scammer. All they have to do is say the received box was open or empty or whatever item they wanted wasn't included. Remember, ebay doesn't arbitrate anything these days and the buyer is always right.

The best option is tracking (if plausible) and insurance, whether self or third party. If the item is above a certain dollar value I'll use the hold for pickup or signature options.  On occasion I'll use google maps to assess risk to inform pickup/signature choice. If something is sent untracked we assume all liability and realistically the buyer doesn't have to do anything and is not responsible for anything. They don't have to reply to you, they don't have to prove anything. As long as their case/request/chargeback threshold is below a very high level ebay sets, anything will be decided in their favor. The problem with an honor system like lettermail or untracked is that recipients have wildly varying levels of patience and anxiety. That and there is no equivalent of a drivers license for online shopping unfortunately. 

[marnotom!]

---

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

My personal opinion is if a buyer chooses/pays for a service that is untracked which is entirely at their discretion and a seller can prove that the parcel was actually dropped off, the buyer should share in the blame of a package not arriving. Once the package is out of a sellers hands, the seller has ZERO control of that package. It's not like the seller could travel to their location and confirm every step along the way that everything was done properly.

---

But the shipping method offered is ultimately up to the seller.   If a seller offers an untrackable and/or uninsurable shipping method, they've presumably done the number-crunching and figured out that they can absorb or treat as the cost of doing business the occasional loss, just as a brick and mortar store with a display out on the sidewalk would.

Besides, tracking is no assurance that a package will not go missing in transit.

[momcqueen]

"...tracking is no assurance that a package will not go missing in transit."

No, but if it does, the sender is eligible to claim for losses. Hence the purpose of tracking. 

[marnotom!]

---

@momcqueen wrote:

"...tracking is no assurance that a package will not go missing in transit."

No, but if it does, the sender is eligible to claim for losses. Hence the purpose of tracking. 

---

The ability to claim for losses is the function of insurance, not tracking.  There are third party insurers in the United States that are quite happy(ish) to insure untrackable international mail.

Some sort of insurance scheme--particularly "cookie jar" insurance--is much more useful for mitigating a wide variety of losses for sellers than tracking.

[momcqueen]

Please show me a Tracked postal service which does not include auto-insurance with it.

That’s the point of it. The sender is assured it’s delivered by the carrier just as the buyer is assured it’s delivered by the seller.

[momcqueen]

Or your money back.

You’re arguing semantics.

I’ve got better things to do with my day today so you’ll have to carry on without me. Bye!

[reallynicestamps]

Sorry mo.

Regular Parcel for one. Although you can buy insurance, it isn't included.

Small Packet USA is not insured, but I don't think it is tracked either.

Hmm -- looking that up, I found the reason why Registered Mail is not accepted by eBay. It offers Proof of Mailing only, not Proof of Delivery. Interesting.

[hlmacdon]

@reallynicestamps wrote:

Hmm -- looking that up, I found the reason why Registered Mail is not accepted by eBay. It offers Proof of Mailing only, not Proof of Delivery. Interesting.

Registered mail is in a bit of a rough spot since the US, Canada, and Australia decided to gang up to force UPU members to switch to the more expensive Post Expres (our tracked packet) which includes higher terminal dues for them. They no longer guarantee scans for them, although occasionally a postie will scan them. USPS hides all tracking but the information is there on their internal systems as ebay can access it (latest RM shipment to the US doesn't track on USPS website but ebay system shows all tracking scans).

I'm not sure if it is the same for Canada Post but my last few registered shipments showed up after a few months of intentional delay by Canada Post and their website didn't show scans as expected. For other countries I'm not sure why it would be considered proof of delivery as they include the same essential information as Post Expres shipments for example, but with the addition of a signature, which is actually better. 

[reallynicestamps]

Well there are postal service standards, which, as you note, vary from country to country, and there are eBay standards.

Since "They no longer guarantee scans for them,.... USPS hides all tracking" as you say, I would guess that eBay, an American company, decided the US way was the only way and opted not to accept Registered  as electronically viewable.

although occasionally a postie will scan them. ...doesn't track on USPS website but ebay system shows all tracking scans

The postie's action may have led to the accessibility on eBay. Who knows?

My basic point is, don't trust that Registered service will be accepted as Proof of Delivery.

[momcqueen]

Small Packet isn’t tracked although many companies will sell insurance for it.

No online sellers use Regular Parcel because: (a) it’s slower than Expedited (b) it costs more than Expedited and (c) it’s not automatically insured unlike Expedited. It’s for Granny sending cookies to little Susie at camp so as far as I’m concerned, Regular Parcel isn’t relative to the case I’m making here for reasons I’ve long since forgotten. But thank you for clarifying that.

[tch_ca]

Not a chance winning a case for a non tracked item.  Ebay even started favoring buyers in cases where even if the shipping is tracked but takes too long, they will credit the buyer. They tell you that if it ever arrives call us back and we will try to get your money back. Oh, but work with the buyer first....

[momcqueen]

Any approach or system has holes if the person on the other end of it behaves without ethics or morals. 

I am currently being hustled for a 'freebie' because my buyer claims a portion of his order vanished mysteriously between me sealing it in the box and him opening it. I'm losing another $20 on a $200 order to participate in this farce of a facade.

Am I angry? Yes. Have I reported this to ebay? Yes. Evidence in messages will support my stand. Is it worth negative feedback and a big fight? No, I will nod and smile and quietly block the other member from additional purchases which is the most that I can do at this point unless I am willing to attempt to file a police report. 

If I'm still angry about it in another week, I will do that, and try to impress upon the law enforcement officer whose eyes will glaze over when they hear this is about $20 that it's the same as shoplifting except the shop is me and it's online.

I put the item in the box myself so I know it was there when he received it. I cannot imagine the reason he thinks his honour and ever-lasting soul is worth $20. 

[femmefan1946]

[hlmacdon]

---

@momcqueen wrote:

Any approach or system has holes if the person on the other end of it behaves without ethics or morals. 

---

Ironically that describes the new corporate approach from Ebay in a nutshell. Where once we only had to worry about the buyer in this equation behaving as such we now have to worry about the marketplace behaving like this by default. The biggest lost we've had as sellers in recent times is Ebay now refusing to get involved in the equation because now the seller is always wrong and the buyer is always right. Customer retention through the tacit approval of theft isn't a good look, but hey, whatever goes in San Fran and New York and whatever gets you your quarterly bonus right? Always easy when it isn't your money right?

The problem is ebay has monetized the entire process so in the end **bleep**py customers are a profit center. If they want to play the role of retailer they need to start doing what ever other retailer does and start firing bad actor customers. When you have users that leave pages and pages of negative feedback in what amounts to obvious scams and they still continue to hold active accounts you know the whole thing is a farce. While we get our fair share of inexperienced sellers not wanting to realize their responsibilities and the realities of ecommerce, most of us are just wanting a fair shake. Till then all we do is grin and bear it until the buyer receives something on the order of 100 reports from X number of unique sellers and some outsourced employee in a far flung corner of the world pushes the delete button.