06-06-2015 10:52 AM
06-13-2015 02:25 PM
sylviebee wrote:
.. And yet you have your Top Rated Seller Badge intact! Even if you lose the badge it doesn't mean that selling on eBay wouldn't be worth your while.
__________________________________________
Yes, I do, but the point I was trying to make is that we are often one defect away from losing that. And attaining and keeping Top Rated status doesn't come without work .... a lot of attention to detail, appeasing impatient and unreasonable buyers, refunding fraudulent buyers in order to avoid a defect (why go through a dispute process when you know you will lose because a $20.00 item was not worth shipping with tracking); a lot of communication, and on and on and on. By far, my buyers are happy ones and I strive to keep them that way.
I never said I was leaving eBay; I said my heart is not in it anymore. And if I was "way too greedy" as you put it, eBay would not be my venue of choice.
06-13-2015 02:45 PM - edited 06-13-2015 02:49 PM
06-13-2015 02:48 PM
06-13-2015 03:39 PM
06-13-2015 04:22 PM
@73rhc wrote:
I think it's pure paranoia and utterly ludicrous to leave a venue for what could be, if you don't work hard at it. All I read here is that eBay is the problem. The scapegoat for sellers who aren't honest with themselves. It's always someone else's fault.
The grass is always greener.
Well, in my case it won't be paranoia that drives me away, but (as I said before) a simple equation of input vs. return. And you bet it does depend almost entirely on eBay whether that point arrives or not, and if so, whether sooner or later.
Making a profit isn't always a matter of how many dollars you're earning, but what those dollars are costing, in time, labour, effort, and losses. Much of that time, labour, effort and loss on eBay has been due to issues unique to this site (case in point: the cart fiasco; case in point: the hacker fiasco; case in point: the Google fiasco, unresolved site bugs, constant changes, constant policy shifts, and on and on). Sellers have no control over any of these issues -- so yes, it is someone else's fault (eBay's) that these things tumble down the sides of the pyramid to us at the bottom. All we sellers can do is work harder, smarter and faster around all the falling debris.
I repeat what I said earlier: eBay has ultimate control over this place, their blunders, policies, rules, site issues and changes directly affect selling on this site. All a seller (especially a smaller one) can do is remain vigilant and educated enough on those issues and changes to keep up with the pack. As 'jtlibra' pointed out, the constant effort can become disheartening in view of the profits to be had these days.
I am a natural optimist -- I believe there is almost always a way around or through a problem. But even I am losing heart as a result of eBay's constant hammering from above. Frankly I think the sellers who are not being honest with themselves are the Pollyannas who believe all is forever well in eBayland and that they (sellers) alone are in the driver's seat where their businesses are concerned. That is a delusion that I'm sure eBay would very much like to perpetuate.
Lastly, I fully agree with your comment that TRS must be constantly earned. However, to be accurate, TRS is not a perquisite (perk) of any kind. A perquisite is an ancillary benefit (usually of employment), given freely as part of a package; referring to TRS as a "perk" in the context of selling here is a complete misnomer. However in one respect you are correct: it was never a bonus or sweetener given out by eBay on signing up sellers. TRS is an earned privilege, above and beyond everyday selling, and requires a lot of careful work and vigilance to maintain.
For many of us, life actually does not go on as usual if that TRS is lost. For one thing, the 20% fee discount is significant enough that losing it would (for me at least) mean rethinking many of my marketing and promotional strategies. It would also likely mean being bumped down the search ladder a few rungs in comparison with U.S. sellers (who make up the majority of my competition). What results is more work, more time input, for even less visibility and lower return.
These things are intimately connected: TRS allows me to offer discounts and free shipping, keeps my items near the top in searches, lowers my overall expenses, all of which in turn help me to remain viable. Losing it isn't as meaningless as you seem to suggest. It would not be an "oh well" situation for me.
To be fair, I have to say that the TRS is one thing eBay has done to directly assist sellers. However, with the defect system (and now the MBG -- probably soon to be "Hassle Free Returns") those of us who have TRS are only a couple of mistakes away from being knocked off the TRS platform. I suspect eBay probably didn't realize how popular the TRS would be and how much it would cost them in fees. It takes far more watchfulness and work to keep that designation now than it did prior to the introduction of the defect system. So -- eBay giveth and eBay taketh away.
In short, I'm quite functional at making my business work well if I'm left to my own devices. I don't expect eBay to hold my hand; what I wish is that they'd keep their noses out of every corner and cease creating messes that directly affect profitability. It's getting to the point where the "cons" of selling here are not being well offset by the "pros" of good international visibility, a premium, functional site, and reliable selling tools. How far the balance will shift before it becomes realistically unprofitable for sellers like me is the question.
06-13-2015 04:49 PM
06-13-2015 06:22 PM
@73rhc wrote:
Other that the search privilege. I don't see the 20% being a make or break issue. Looking at your sold items. You've sold 34 items since March 16th. A very rough calculation is $1525 in sales. Many with free shipping. Let us assume that the others bring the total for the purpose of fee calculation to $1600. Because you have a store. The normal fvf should be 9% that equal $144. 20% of $144 is $28.80. And that's for three months. Does your eBay business hinge on $15 a month? And yes I'm aware of the store fees.
While I appreciate the clever analysis of my business, I'm afraid you're missing the point.
Think of the TRS discount as part of a pie chart in which each portion contributes to profitability (or viability). There are a number of sections such as TRS, US/Cdn currency exchange, COGS, expenses and supplies, shipping (label) discounts, even time invested, and on and on -- areas where a direct discount or benefit can be realized, or else the possibility of cutting costs to reduce losses.
The loss of one "pie slice" is a critical issue since its contribution must be made up from somewhere else unless significant changes are made. As eBay has become a less, shall we say, reliable and regular sales generator for my business than it once was, and Canada Post more challenging cost-wise, every portion of that pie chart is essential. Over the years it has become more difficult to cover one problem area using other available factors.
The pie chart as a whole is my map to maintaining my current selling strategies. Skew the pie chart, and my business plan has to be re-evaluated. Each section is a buffer of sorts. So yes, the TRS is an important component whose loss I can't afford to take lightly, especially if the Canadian dollar rises another 5% to 10% against the $US. Which is why I do everything I can within reason to maintain the TRS.
Taken together, these discounts or savings allow me to continue to offer my customers (the vast majority of whom are in the U.S.) subsidized shipping rates, upgrades and/or free shipping. They allow me to avoid charging for handling. They allow me to use quality shipping supplies and presentation rather than simply throwing things in a bare, re-purposed cereal box (important when one is selling garments or vintage items). Believe me, as a buyer I've received items packed that way -- it looks bad and makes a poor impression of the seller's care and service. All of these efforts help make my customers happy, which in turn helps me hold onto my TRS.
The search boost of TRS may or may not be what eBay claims it is, but I'd rather not find out how much lower I'd rank without it.
I know the majority of my competitors are American, so I'm already at a disadvantage. The fact that my important items almost always show up on page 1 or 2 of searches on .com is a critical component of my ability to remain competitive and still make a profit on eBay. Remove that and I'd be just another foreign seller on page 10.
I don't need any further handicaps from eBay -- I've had enough over the past 3 or 4 years that I've had to adjust to and rise above. The fact that I'm still able to hang on and make a profit here is not a testament to anything eBay has done to improve its site, its visitor stream or the functionality of its seller/buyer tools, but I'd say very much in spite of eBay. I'm actually amazed at having surmounted so many obstacles yet still remained viable here as a business. For how much longer is the question. I feel we got a totally unexpected reprieve with this year's Spring Seller Update. What we need is a few more "non-housecleaning" updates.
Yet (as I said earlier) the effort required to keep up on eBay -- and keep on top -- hasn't been commensurate with an increasing return. I've always maintained that I would have gladly put up with eBay's foibles, complexities and idiosyncrasies had all that effort actually resulted in booming sales. It hasn't. In fact, despite more effort over the past 2 years, and listing more items each month, my overall eBay income is down significantly. I used to easily average $2000 to $2300 every 3 months prior to 2013; now as you pointed out, my 3-month figures are closer to $1600. The gap represents not just lost revenue, but lost opportunities to expand my business.
I know this sounds like a harsh criticism of eBay, but bear in mind that I'm comparing my experience here to the ease, simplicity and functionality of selling on two other venues -- they're a world apart from eBay and I constantly find myself thinking eBay could learn a lesson or two from them. Just having a properly functioning site would be a start, but they can't even seem to manage that.
Since eBay now represents less than half my annual income, I don't need any further time-wasting and frustrating issues created by eBay itself that cut into my profits. There are indeed greener pastures, and lots of them to choose from. EBay needs to wake up and smell the coffee before it loses most of its traditional core of independent smaller sellers. Someday they may wish they had done more to make the millions of us "little guys" comfortable here once the big retailers have also moved on.
06-13-2015 06:33 PM
@rose-dee wrote:
Yet (as I said earlier) the effort required to keep up on eBay -- and keep on top -- hasn't been commensurate with an increasing return.
YES!!!! I agree 100%. That's right on the money.
The time put into keeping up with all of that is not worth the effort.
That time could be spent creating new listings and selling more stuff.
06-13-2015 08:46 PM
I appreciate the support of others, who share a similar eBay experience to mine. But, I always appreciate hearing another point of view (I just wish it didn’t have to be communicated in such an adversarial way); my criticism of eBay was not in any way intended to be a criticism of anyone else’s personal business plan.
I will share an experience, one that completely destroyed our first eBay business.
In 1999, after 14 years of running a business, building automated machinery for the auto industry, our major customer relocated their auto parts manufacturing, into the United States and Mexico. We took a look around and realized that we had become too attached to a dying industry. But we were lucky – we were small and quick on our feet – we sold our unit and our house in Mississauga and moved to rural Milton, where we could run a home-based business.
Then we found our niche online - within a year we were selling digital downloads of Nick’s original plans for building your own CNC machines, how-to-guides for hobby workshops; and CNC software applications. We boomed! And eBay was the best place, by a mile, for digital sales.
Then one day in 2008, it all abruptly came to an end. Digital sales would now be restricted to eBay classifieds only – what and where were eBay classifieds? Nobody knew – not the sellers (initially) and certainly not the buyers. Ebay’s explaination for such a move was that it was intended to combat “Feedback Manipulation”. Apparently there was no other solution, to a problem that existed across the entire site, than to put people out of business.
They took a lot of flak for it – not only from devastated sellers, but from investors and industry analysts that still see them as having missed out on the very huge electronic books and music market.
Our sales on eBay dwindled, we had become invisible, unless we were accidently stumbled across. Then, a couple of years later, eBay classifieds separated from the main site and became the US version of Kijiji, and Canadians were prohibited from listing there. But honestly, the real hot poker in the eye for us was when, shortly after the policy change, a new seller appeared selling a digital download, of what was obviously a hobbled together set of plans (taken directly from other sellers, including our own), that was listed in a restricted category and he sold them there for years without impunity. Everyone just gave up reporting him, it was pointless.
But, in the meantime, having built an industrial vacuum former, we were back up and successfully selling our new line of landscape concrete molds on eBay. And, as a side note, we gave the digital business to our son (who had been instrumental in its initial success) and he grew it to the point where it now provides enough of a yearly income (in addition to his own) that his wife is able to stay home with their son.
I think I get to claim that I am neither a coward nor whiner, when it comes to business. For us this has never been about how much money can we make (beyond what is needed to be comfortable), it is about staying in business – we intend to be self-employed until we are carted off, and we intend to be happy and independent until then. This is a way of life for us, not simply a way to make a living.
I mean it when I say I wish everyone the best. No one knows the challenges you face, when you chose to make your own way in the world, better than other business owners.
Lisa
06-13-2015 11:54 PM
06-14-2015 11:43 AM - edited 06-14-2015 11:45 AM
@73rhc wrote:
The sky is falling, the sky is falling....
Thanks for your courteous remarks...
You've actually made my point for me almost better than I could have. There was a time, 3 or 4 years ago, when my average sales on eBay were between $800 and $1200 per month -- sufficient for the part-time living I need to earn, along with custom commissions I took on. As you so clearly note, gross sales are now around $500-$600 per month -- even with more input (work) than previously.
However, what you don't see are the decisions I made when I did begin to notice the sky was falling (or at least drooping) last year. It was clear that eBay was creating less gain for me for more work on my part and that I needed to find other venues, which I ultimately did. I can't afford to be a "recreational seller" who looks upon eBay as my only selling opportunity if the equation no longer makes sense. As I said, eBay is now becoming a minority share of my income.
I also got caught by precisely the same stupid decision-making by eBay that 'rockcliffe' so clearly described above, concerning digital items. In light of that move by eBay, there was no point growing my business here on eBay, so I took it elsewhere. I now sell my entire line of digital items very happily and easily, right up front, on another site. Most people don't even know where "Classifieds" are on eBay -- and they are more expensive listings -- so there was no good purpose in fighting that upstream battle.
The bottom line is that the more complex and more restrictive eBay makes it to sell on this site, the easier it will be for sellers like me to make the decision to finally cut the cord, especially when we see sales flagging. I figure I'm just another major Seller Update away from that decision.
By the way, I have an eBay store for many important reasons other than mere volume of sales. I hold the rights to my products and trade marks, and consistency across venues is important. There are also a number of promotional and marketing features available with stores that make a big difference, especially considering that my competitors (and buyers) are primarily in the U.S. and always have been.
06-14-2015 12:17 PM
06-14-2015 01:28 PM
You seem to have all the answers here on why sellers fail. Perhaps you can help me. I have been selling as Gifts of Elegance since 2004. I have between 1200 - 1500 listings at all times. I sell FOUR different categories: Designer Jewelry, China Dinnerware, Crystal Collectibles and Crystal Stemware. They are all top brand names, top quality and about 80% in new condition. I am constantly updating my listings and also adding new items. About four years ago, there was a "limit" put on my account. It limited me to list $350,000 Cdn, per month. My sales dropped from $12,000-$16,000 monthly down to around $3,000. Last month I was automatically given a new limit.
I can now list $3.5 MILLION per month. Yes, $3,500.000.00! My sales for the last 120 days was $20,000. Last 7 days I have sold $295 and there is no action day after day. I did nothing wrong.
06-14-2015 04:25 PM - edited 06-14-2015 04:29 PM
06-14-2015 04:46 PM
@73rhc wrote:
My comments may have been abrupt, to the point and stern. But never lacking courtesy.
I disagree. If I was an overly sensitive person, I might think I was unjustly interpreting your posts as being extremely rude and antagonistic .... with a large dollop of smugness. But, certainly, from the many posts on this thread, I am not the only person who has construed your remarks the same way.
We have all been reminded to keep these Boards civil, but there is little civility in your posts. If you disagree, simply re-read posts by treasure hunter, cumos, pocomo and many others who are always courteous and, in particular, rose-dee and rockcliffmachine, who seem to have taken the brunt of your caustic remarks, and yet have remained professional in their response. I know they don't need me to speak for them but I simply had to get these few comments off my chest.
I have seen posts deleted by lizzier-ca which were tame compared to yours.
06-14-2015 05:04 PM
06-14-2015 05:39 PM
Not meant to be confrontational at all! I just got the impression from your comments here that you have the secret that we are all missing.
$20,000 in sales for 120 days is not $6667. That is a 4 month period and averages to $5,000. The reason for the increase was that I sold a very expensive set of china that was over $7,000 plus serving pieces, all purchased by the same buyer.
"Maybe your sales have dropped because you are in Canada and selling US dollars"
I have always been in Canada and always sold in USA dollars. I only have 2-3 Canadian buyers a month and it has been like that even when the Canadian dollar was higher. Also, when a Canadian buys from me, they don't have to worry about paying extra for duties and other charges.
"They can buy the same item from a U.S. seller for the same price and pay less in shipping. Not to mention getting their item sooner."
I can truly say that many of my items are "unique". All my Christian Dior items are new from old stock and save for an odd piece here and there, there are not too many duplicate items from other sellers. Same applies to my Burberrys and other designer jewelry. My Swarovski prices are competitive.
To say that it cost less for shipping is wrong. I shipped for FREE for over a year and it did not increase my sales. I also subsidize much of the shipping costs out of my own pocket.
How do you know that they receive their items sooner? Do you have a shipping address in USA? I do! Don't assume if you don't know.
"Or maybe your prices are too high." Have you ever been in a Christian Dior store, Burberrys, Swarovski or other high end stores and seen the prices? Half of my purchasers are re-sellers, so maybe that does not apply either.
"If you want to blame it on Google, site hacking, lower eBay traffic than whatever helps you sleep at night." I have not blamed anyone. If I don't sleep at night, its because I am either wracking my brains on how to increase my sales or sitting in front of the computer checking what other people are doing and whats selling, etc. Or just plain re-organizing in the hope of increased sales.
06-14-2015 05:57 PM
06-14-2015 06:41 PM
If you take off the $7,000 (actually, it was a bit more), it leaves $13,000 which comes to $3,250 and that is not double of $3,000 but pretty darn close.
Yes, Canadians still have to pay an exchange rate. They have to pay it whether they buy from me or another USA seller.
I am not trying to tell you that I can get my items to a USA buyer faster than a USA seller. But often its the same. Also, not everyone ships the same day or even the next like I do. Some print out the label and don't bother to mail for a week. Lot of them wait for the item to be picked up while we rush to the post office every day.
My sales are down because of limited visibility that is controlled by eBay. Right after my big sale, ALL my items were put on the very end of the last page in every category for over a week. Then there are the black-outs which we don't see.
The limit on my monthly listings was increased to $3.5 million not to increase my sales but to increase eBay's numbers.
06-14-2015 06:50 PM