Standard promoted fee, things that make you go hmmmm

[ricarmic]

I've noticed a couple things over the last few weeks.

As others have identified my promoted impressions rate is lower than it used to be, not as dramatic or as of a certain day as others have seen.

I've noticed that the "suggested" promoted rate has risen about 50%, so for example, stuff that used to suggest 6.2% is now suggesting 10.1%.

I'm interested to know if others are noticing this incremental change in the suggested rate.

Theoretically this tells me the average promoted rate people are willing to pay is increasing in my categories.

Since mine hasn't changed if that is true it would explain why my impressions is lower now.

Looks like I'll have to try some top secret experiments.

[intimewithmusic]

Unfortunately it didn't take some folks long to exploit "chargebacks" either.

Starting a brick & mortar from scratch is real hard. I've found selling on eBay is harder.  I was occasionally faced with shoppers wanting me to match the big box store prices but I didn't knowing it could start a "pandemic".  No regrets.

It's important to identify eBay as a large platform with buyers. Credit where credit is due. We can agree on that. "If there aint no audience there ain't no show".  That said,  the sellers sell the tickets to the show, set up the stage,  deliver the act and clean up when the show ends.  eBay's offer to "save the sale" and taking money out of the seller's pocket after the show is over isn't the way to go. 

If eBay feels that a "Buyer's Remorse Rebate" is good for marketting they can offer a general eBay credit instead of a seller ultimatum.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Generally speaking I do not promote anything newly listed.

Generally speaking I more heavily promote "older" listed items.

I do have multi-item listings that have serious competition out there. I have a modestly expensive promoted rate on them but I don't fiddle with it much, at least not in the recent past. This translates into lower sales of them, but I have only so much supply so I'm not going to "discount" (as in pay more in fees) them any lower than I have now. I suspect my competition uses the high margins to more heavily promote them, and they may not often be "doing it for a living" which provides more discounting room too.

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Just created 2 campaigns of approx. 150 items each. First promo was suggesting rates of 9.1 to 16.5%. Collectibles category mostly.  2nd promo (Lots so all kinds of eBay categories)  suggested rates in 11.5 to 16.1%. Between the 2 promos there were only a couple suggesting in the 7.5 range. Nothing less than that.  Both promos came back with a 35% modest performance rating. We shall see if it brings any kind of punch in the stomach to increased sales. (Note: Testing the 5% rate)

-Lotz

[intimewithmusic]

" once someone buys ONE thing that's promoted, we pay the promoted rates for EVERYTHING else they buy for the next 30 days that is also promoted. "

That's something I didn't know. I knew that if you lowered or ended a promotion after someone clicked on your item it would be considered promoted for 30 days. I didn't know you would pay a PL fee on other items. 

I with you on finding new repeat customers. My problem there is mine are usually attracted by brand name or artist. I recently aquired a great customer who collects Fender posters. Unfortunately I've sold him my last two.  Due to shipping costs posters are too expensive to source online. 

[ricarmic]

Yes the "everything promoted gets billed" for 30 days is exactly why I now run a portion of my items (the "new" stuff) without promoting them as I think it is generally wasted $$$. Before that change I had 100% of my items promoted.

The problem for me with the "better deal" situation is that no 2 stamps are the same so to speak. There are a LOT of different seen and unseen (depending how well pictured) things that affect a stamps value (same as for most collectibles). The buyer would generally compare my "better condition" item to a lesser condition but cheaper item.  For two people selling the same brand of batteries, it is simply price, for a collectible it is so much more than that. Not looking forward to that being introduced for sure.

Yes the stamp field is very very large. I'm in my 46th year of selling now and I still am learning stuff all the time, "stamps" is a lot more than stamps, the covers they're on, postcards, labels and a whole host of other aspects are all part of the domain so to speak. I too am surprised at stuff I expect to be a guaranteed sale not selling and something that I almost threw into the garbage selling for $120 US$ (this is a true example!).

I will say that my experience in my field is that auctions do get more views. I take the no risk approach, the auction starting price is what would have been my BIN price. If it doesn't sell via auction, it goes into the store at the same price. I do see that the views seriously jump when an item has a bid, so ebay is clearly favouring items that have bids (and higher views) however I'm not ready to redo the 99c start prices as I don't think there's enough bidders to drive the prices up to my expected levels on average. However maybe someday that will also be an experiment too. I do also see that a chunk of my regular buyers do not "see" the item when it is auctioning, so I think there is a significant BIN crowd that avoids auctions, probably because they hate never winning them (or often or cheap enough).

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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@ricarmic wrote:

Generally speaking I do not promote anything newly listed.

Generally speaking I more heavily promote "older" listed items.

I do have multi-item listings that have serious competition out there. I have a modestly expensive promoted rate on them but I don't fiddle with it much, at least not in the recent past. This translates into lower sales of them, but I have only so much supply so I'm not going to "discount" (as in pay more in fees) them any lower than I have now. I suspect my competition uses the high margins to more heavily promote them, and they may not often be "doing it for a living" which provides more discounting room too.

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Just created 2 campaigns of approx. 150 items each. First promo was suggesting rates of 9.1 to 16.5%. Collectibles category mostly.  2nd promo (Lots so all kinds of eBay categories)  suggested rates in 11.5 to 16.1%. Between the 2 promos there were only a couple suggesting in the 7.5 range. Nothing less than that.  Both promos came back with a 35% modest performance rating. We shall see if it brings any kind of punch in the stomach to increased sales. (Note: Testing the 5% rate)

-Lotz

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@ricarmic 

@intimewithmusic 

>>>Non Top Secret Data Testing<<<

Comparing this month to last month I am down approx 600 views and down just under 10,000 impressions. Even promoted activity is wayy down. My sales are down 66 % compared to the previous 2 30 day periods. Something is definitely going on with the eBay algorithm and how search works now. Some of this can be blamed on the economy but not all of it.

-Lotz

Click through rate was just over 1.0. It is now down to 0.3. Looking at views for today only 30 % were organic. 70% were promoted. 

[flipistics]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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>>>Non Top Secret Data Testing<<<

Comparing this month to last month I am down approx 600 views and down just under 10,000 impressions. Even promoted activity is wayy down. My sales are down 66 % compared to the previous 2 30 day periods. Something is definitely going on with the eBay algorithm and how search works now. Some of this can be blamed on the economy but not all of it.

-Lotz

Click through rate was just over 1.0. It is now down to 0.3. Looking at views for today only 30 % were organic. 70% were promoted. 

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How about compared to either May or June (since this was a very early spring) of last year?

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@flipistics wrote:

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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>>>Non Top Secret Data Testing<<<

Comparing this month to last month I am down approx 600 views and down just under 10,000 impressions. Even promoted activity is wayy down. My sales are down 66 % compared to the previous 2 30 day periods. Something is definitely going on with the eBay algorithm and how search works now. Some of this can be blamed on the economy but not all of it.

-Lotz

Click through rate was just over 1.0. It is now down to 0.3. Looking at views for today only 30 % were organic. 70% were promoted. 

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How about compared to either May or June (since this was a very early spring) of last year?

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@flipistics 

@intimewithmusic 

Just the facts comparison May/June 2023 to Mar 19-May 19 2024

Key thing to note was not doing anywhere near the amount of promoting back then compared to now. In distance past my normal ratio for views was 5:2 eBay vs non-eBay. Now it is closer to 2:3 or 2:3.5. My forecast for number of sales for May will be under 10. I used to consistently average 35 to 45 sales with less listings. Majority of my drop in sales has to do with changes eBay has made to internal changes to categories.

2023: 60 days

Impressions: 500,034

Total Views: 4411 = 2305 eBay + 2105 External

Sales: 36

Organic Views: 61%

Promoted Views 38%

Click Thru: .5%

Avg Sale Conversion: .8%

Top 20 Slot Impressions: 9.3 %

2024: 60 days

Impressions: 592,000

Total Views: 4220 = 2373 eBay + 1847 External

Sales: 22

Organic Views: 41%

Promoted views: 58%

Click Thru: 0.4%

Ave Sale: 0.5%

Top 20 Slot Impressions: 7%

Strangely May 18th I had 18,000 + impressions.

Normal average is 6000 to 9000 per day.

-Lotz

Disclaimer: Anytime you believe there is some kind of consistency to what is happening under the eBay hood eBay will change something to throw a wrench into the machine. Ergo: eBay's idea of whackamole!!!

[intimewithmusic]

Folks, all of the statistics and graphs are making my old eyes tired hence this larger font. Not to mention here in BC seniors pay over $200 for eye exams. Sluggish eBay sales = no new glasses... . Now we're caught between the Feds and the dang dentists who aren't signing up to the new Seniors Dental program.. Don't get me started... 

• Some of you are talking about dwindling sales. 
• Others about whether or not paying 10 to 15% PL fees over and above the 12.35 to 15% final value fees is going to help. 

   Frankly, although the topic is promoted listing fees, the goal is profitable sales.

In 2023 sellers supported eBay during the online buyers dip by paying extra in PL fees. Sort of an eBay "bailout".  Although eBay's sales dropped their profits didn't thanks to us.  I don't mind saying I don't like giving out any fees other than the FVF. My current "only when needed" PL is 2.6% on items that have comps and 3.6% on items that have multiple comps like clothing and media.  What can I say. I'm Italian. I'd rather spend my money on the ladies. 

    Awhile back those of us in Canada were very quick to eliminate "Free Shipping" as a way to increase profits. Did you notice the coincidence that eBay abandoned it's push for free shipping when someone there thought up promoted listings?

   Since then times changed. During the push for Free Ship Canadians only had CP Expedited domestic and CP Expedited US. Now things are different. Particularily on domestic items under 200 grams and on Tracked Packet USA up to 2KG.

   In addition to that the dot calmers were strapped with EIS causing them higher fees and longer delivery times. 

  Due to the sliding scale of Canada Post's fantastic low fees and the EIMESS before we assume PL will save our buhtts should we take another look at offering free or low flat rate shipping instead? At least our money stays in Canada, home of the Canucks who will win tomorrow, right @lotzofuniquegoodies ... ha ha. I digress.

   To avoid "squinty" graphs my stats are in the form of pictures. I chose a very hot listing I have now. It's currently in two buyer's carts. Most collectors of this item are in the USA and it's a 2.4KG (packaged) item. Please take a quick look at the pictures (All Audiences) and let me know;

a) Would you raise the Promoted Listing rate from 2.6% ? or

b) Would you instead eliminate it and offer FREE SHIPPING to Orlando from Kelowna? All the statistics are in the photos.  

Thank you!

[regs43]

I have never done promoted fees but here is my 2023 vs 2024 for the same past 30 days (a decrease in all areas) I sell in sports cards and memorabilia

Report for Apr 19, 2023 - May 19, 2023

Impressions 4,150,172
Page views 19,426
Quantity sold 1,178
Avg click-through rate 0.4%
Avg sales conversion rate 6.1%
Organic impressions 100.0%
Top 20 search slot impressions 23.5%

Report for Apr 19, 2024 - May 19, 2024

Impressions 3,533,654 - DOWN 616,518
Page views 16,238 - DOWN 3,188
Quantity sold 742  - DOWN 432
Avg click-through rate 0.4%  SAME
Avg sales conversion rate 4.6% - DOWN 1.5%
Organic impressions 100.0% - SAME
Top 20 search slot impressions 23.2% - DOWN 0.3%

Overall its been slower and I noticed that even without checking the charts (which I rarely do), but its verifies. I usually have an x amount of dollars a week/month I hope to make to stay on "pace"

[intimewithmusic]

This isn't as simple a choice as it looks. I chose a heavy item shipped cross continental. I have to pay shipping at $55.84 including handling charges to Orlando from Kelowna.  This is  a "worst case scenario" and if going with Scenario 1 I might save up to $19.97. 

I think the key to the profit would be not going over 2 KGs with free shipping (domestic under 200 g/US under 2KG) and a low or NO PL fee.

[sparx_63]

Hello

I stopped using PL right after Christmas.  Sales have been the best I have had in four years for the months of January until now...(my Christmas rush has not stopped).  I will never use PL again.   Instead I monitor prices and adjust, look for improvement in underperforming listings, and do a sell similar on each listing once every two months.  If a UPC is applicable, upload it.  Ship fast. Fill out feedback, stagger listing start times, add new content regularly.  All these actions feed the algorithym.  

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@regs43 wrote:

I have never done promoted fees but here is my 2023 vs 2024 for the same past 30 days (a decrease in all areas) I sell in sports cards and memorabilia

Report for Apr 19, 2023 - May 19, 2023

Impressions 4,150,172
Page views 19,426
Quantity sold 1,178
Avg click-through rate 0.4%
Avg sales conversion rate 6.1%
Organic impressions 100.0%
Top 20 search slot impressions 23.5%

Report for Apr 19, 2024 - May 19, 2024

Impressions 3,533,654 - DOWN 616,518
Page views 16,238 - DOWN 3,188
Quantity sold 742  - DOWN 432
Avg click-through rate 0.4%  SAME
Avg sales conversion rate 4.6% - DOWN 1.5%
Organic impressions 100.0% - SAME
Top 20 search slot impressions 23.2% - DOWN 0.3%

Overall its been slower and I noticed that even without checking the charts (which I rarely do), but its verifies. I usually have an x amount of dollars a week/month I hope to make to stay on "pace"

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@regs43 

Thanks for taking the time with the comparison. Appreciated. I am guessing in your situation your results may have much to do with 20,000 + listings all in limited number of specific categories. As sellers we will never be first up with all listings. With 20,000 + listings you would stand a better chance compared, in my situation 1800 + listings in an assortment of categories. Just like someone with 300 listings having even less sales. You could say it's all relative.

Sidenote. 4 sales this weekend. All items were created this weekend and all in the same category. 

-Lotz

PS. For your higher dollar recent sales.....Rarity. As noted in a previous post majority of my any recent sales, when I did a check were almost all items with a very small number of comps.

[intimewithmusic]

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@sparx_63 wrote:

Hello

I stopped using PL right after Christmas.  Sales have been the best I have had in four years for the months of January until now...(my Christmas rush has not stopped).  I will never use PL again.   Instead I monitor prices and adjust, look for improvement in underperforming listings, and do a sell similar on each listing once every two months.  If a UPC is applicable, upload it.  Ship fast. Fill out feedback, stagger listing start times, add new content regularly.  All these actions feed the algorithym.  

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You didn't mention your shipping strategy but it appears you have Free Shipping <200grams domestic and subsidized flat rate to the USA.  

Is that right and do you feel free shipping & subbed shipping is your "replacement" for the PL? 

[sparx_63]

Hello intimewith music

I use free ship domestically for items with a fixed shipping cost (lettermail).  I flat rate items to the USA where I know the shipping falls into a certain cost range (small size with a California cost rate).  Sometimes I adjust shipping cost and item cost to match same items sold cost on EBAY (if I have the margin).

For sure free shipping boosts your EBAY search.  Not sure about the flat rate shipping.

I treat certain categories as loss leaders (small profit margins) to keep sales and shipping moving (I suspect both feed the algorythm).

I can't say PL ever worked for me.  I used it over a 1 1/2 year period.  I sold as many PL items as none PL, so I could not fathom as why using PL would stimulate my non PL sales.  I sort of got upset when EBAY started charging PL on listings because they were "associated" with PL.  

My thinking about it changed.  I decided then I would improve listings as mch as possible, sell on tight margins (making best buyer price whenever possible) and feed the search.  It has been a non stop fourth quarter ever since, averaging about 40 - 45 sales a month on about 1100 listings.

[intimewithmusic]

Hi @sparx_63 

  Thank you. I think those of us who don't use free shipping on specific categories have a lot less continuity of sales.  This came to my attention when I began to monitor an "evil twin" store in the US. The store has about the same number of items in similar categories to me.

  Their listing photos and content are the worst I've ever seen on eBay. There are loss leaders in the titles, little or no descriptions and the photos are so bad they have with socks, dogs, garbage, animals and bare feet in most of them.  It's so obvious the listings appear to be some sort of seller "trademark". The item prices are double the market prices. This store nets 3 or 4 times the sales I can muster. 

   The items in focus are ephemera under 250 grams. With USPS Media Mail prices on the rise I was hoping to compete using our $11 Tracked Packet (7.50usd)  and adding some PL to be seen but it's not working. In fact, after increasing the PL, my store has gone into some sort of deep freeze.  I've had  just a half dozen sales so far from May 1-9 and absolutely nothing since May 9.  Not even an offer.  Like I don't exist.

   I'm thinking about removing PL and replacing it with a free shipping business policy for those items. o Since PL began threads like this have been repeated countless times. The outcome is always the same. The take away is that the benefits of PL are unique to different sellers and general benefits are immeasuarable.  When the "Canadian" brewery beer marketters were asked "How much benefit do you get from the millions of dollars you spend sponsoring the Grey Cup" the expert answer was, "We don't know.  We do know if we stop someone else will take our place. "  eBay sellers don't have money to burn like that.

   Like many sellers I was quick to dismiss Free Shipping when eBay pushed it before Promoted Lisitngs came into play. When my items got lighter something changed. I think a careful Free Shipping formula might make my particular listings more positve and competitive to US buyers.  With sales drying up this quickly there is nothing to lose. 

  You seem to be doing something right!  Thanks for your input. 

IT