Starting January 2025, Ebay Canada to require SIN number for all sellers with more than 30 sales?

[joycroe_0]

I was reading this article on Ebay and it states that as of January 2025, anyone with over 30 sales will have to provide a SIN number. 
https://www.ebay.ca/help/account/regulatory/sales-reporting/canada-digital-sales-reporting?id=5476#s...

It seems like quite a drastic update and I'm surprised more people haven't been talking about it.

[fergua3]

This gov't is unrelenting?  You think the Conservatives or NDP will be any different??  You think if either of them are elected they will make this new law go away?   ALL governments want all the tax revenue they can get.

For all his 'ax the tax' talk, Polliever is all about reducing the deficit.   That means tax revenue and cuts.   Pensions eg disability and OAS are in his sights for cuts...he will never raise taxes on corporations, so who does that leave for more taxes?  NDP will not cut programs but will have to raise taxes to pay for all their hand out programs they will want.  They will raise corporate taxes which will drive business away, resulting in job losses and discourage new businesses from coming to Canada, which will mean no new jobs created.

It doesn't matter who is the gov't.  New tax laws are going to happen.

[postit4me]

Wait a minute eBay adds in postage costs to sales figure which no one I know keeps. This goes to the courtier not the seller. Handling fees go to the seller and are noted in ad sometimes. Which is it are we to pay taxes on courier costs that eBay includes in our sales. That should be immediately adjusted to reflect sale/handling fees only.  I expect eBay will be preparing as per SIN rules a T4 slip to include in my income tax package and mailed to my address by February 15 every year.

I have contacted Service Canada about providing my SIN to eBay no answer yet but will share when get a responce.

[joycroe_0]

Thanks for looking into this. Good point about the T4 slip, if they're going to be requiring sensitive information like this, it certainly should be something that they'll provide.

I'm really quite surprised by the lack of clarity and trasparency surrounding such a consequential policy change. Other Canadian Ebayer's who I've talked to had NO IDEA and one seller I know told me he'll straight up quit the platform. It really is becoming more and more difficult to be a casual seller what with the fees, constantly rising shipping prices and these new hoops to jump through.

[joycroe_0]

That's probably true. I know no one wants to hear us talk politics, but I do think Conservatives are more on the side of the little guy when it comes to things like small sellers on Ebay. I mean they already take HST and GST off our old used products that we already paid for, you'd think they'd be in favor of making it easier for the seller. Plus, it helps the environment with all this stuff we might otherwise be throwing away to go in a landfilll somewhere by going to someone who's happy to acquire the item.

[msau4301]

Thanks for this post (and to all that have commented). I haven't sold since early November since I wasn't sure how the strike fiasco was going to carry out and I've been trying to limit my stress, but I do peek at the forum here so I might have a heads about some of the new glitches/issues when that fine day comes I start up again.

I would have thought this SIN request was something important enough to have warranted an email at least from eBay and I haven't seen one, or a post on Announcements (again don't think there has been one, not on forum at least). For fun I checked my sales report for last year and was shocked to see I had a whopping 271 sales - I really, really didn't think I had done much in the 9 months I was active. Since I use eBay labels this helps put the Net amount down at least which is handy. Will be interesting to see when/how they reach out when the numbers are hit. It is handy to have the year to date report available so we can see where we stand (from the standpoint of watching for the request).

Thanks again to those of you who are always in the know and to you joycroe_0 for adding the link. There has to be all kinds of sellers (thousands) who don't even come to the board here, but at least those of us who do have a heads up.

[joycroe_0]

My pleasure! I too was surprised that there wasn't more of a formal announcement regarding this, I had just randomly stumbled upon it by chance. My guess is in the coming days that there's going to be a lot of people inquiring about this.

In the Ebay article it states that once people hit the threshold, those who don't subit the SIN could be fined up to 500 dollars?!?! which is quite absurd considering no one initially consented to handing over that information and most people have no idea about the policy change and I assume are going to be taken by surprised once they hit the 30 sale threshold.

[mrdutch1001]

"but I do think Conservatives are more on the side of the little guy when it comes to things like small sellers on Ebay." >>oh yeah like we believe Conservatives are on the side of the little guy>What a Joke!  as is their leader...never, ever believe anything that comes out of the mouth of thieves! and no government gives a rat's ass about eBay sellers! It is what it is folks...

C'est la vie!

Que sera,sera!

[marnotom!]

@fergua3, you might find this recent report from the Conference Board of Canada interesting:

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/economy-aspx-2/

The Board ranks British Columbia’s recent economic performance as the overall best of the provinces in Canada, and the NDP has held power in that province since 2017. Conservative-led Ontario, not surprisingly, is in second place but falls short of BC on a number of fronts.

If I’m scanning that report correctly, Canada overall seems to be struggling with foreign investment right now.

[femmefan1946]

And If I buy a 200 dollar box of sports cards, and decide to sell some of the ones that I don't want at a lower price to recoup some of the cost, why should that be taxable income?

If you paid $200 for the cards, and put up 100 of them on eBay, your procurement cost is $200.

If you sold 50 of them at $1.00 each and shipped them for $1.00 each, your gross income is $100.

The customers are all in Alberta and paid GST 5% (because it's easier for me).

Your customer's payment was $105 dollars.

Your deductions are $50 for your shipping cost plus eBay fees of 13.5% of the customers payment or $14.17 plus $200 procurement cost.

Your total deductions are $264.17 on your gross  payment of $105.00.

Even if you ignore the 100 cards you kept, your cost was $100 and your deductions are $164.17 on a gross payment of $105.00

Which is also why many small sellers don't realize they are losing money and eBay selling is a hobby not a side hustle.

[rosscd57]

I worked in Human Resources for over 40 years and have come up against this issue many times. You do not have to give out your SIN number to anyone else but the Federal Government.  They can ask but your are not required to divulge it. This isssue came up repeated ly in the *80's, and it was mostly US based companys that wanted the SIN number and the Government at the time told them to back off. The Feds  of course aready have your SIN number and rarley ask - if they do it is usually only for confirmarion. Ebay can ask - but you are not required to give it to them.

Here is a quote right of the Government site - or just looki it up yourself.

To work in Canada or access government programs and benefits, you need a 9-digit number known as a Social Insurance Number (SIN).

Your SIN is private and it is illegal for anyone else to use it. You are responsible for protecting your SIN.

Service Canada is responsible for issuing SINs, which comes in a paper format (Confirmation of SIN letter) or digitally if you are eligible by signing in or registering for My Service Canada Account (MSCA). If you have a plastic SIN card that has not expired, it is still valid but this format is no longer issued.

Don't give it to them and this thing will just blow away.

[rosscd57]

I worked in HR for a long time and delt with is issue way back. This issue was setteled  in the late 1970's because some US based Employers were demanding thier employees SIN number. The Canadian Government told them to back off. No one should have access to it execpt the Federal Governtment and they rarley ask for it and when they do it is only for confirmation that you have one.

Here is a quote right off the Government Web Site re SIn. You can check it out yourself.

"To work in Canada or access government programs and benefits, you need a 9-digit number known as a Social Insurance Number (SIN).

Your SIN is private and it is illegal for anyone else to use it. You are responsible for protecting your SIN.

Service Canada is responsible for issuing SINs, which comes in a paper format (Confirmation of SIN letter) or digitally if you are eligible by signing in or registering for My Service Canada Account (MSCA). If you have a plastic SIN card that has not expired, it is still valid but this format is no longer issued.'"

So don't give it to them and this thing will just blow away.

[mrdutch1001]

I haven't looked at my SI card in over 10 years(stored away in a security box) and no one has ever asked for it...to me it's a useless outdated item to anyone other than the Gov't agency that issued it in the first place..NO ONE else ever needs to see it or know about it...

[byto253]

When that came into effect a lot of companies had to change their file referencing as they used SIN numbers for that.  Huge change

In this case th ough  eBay does indicate that the SIN is being collected "Under Canada digital sales reporting legislation..."

I found this on a Ernst & Young's website, which is pretty clear.   The Act requires platform's to provide a Tax Identifier Number,  which includes a SIN. 

https://globaltaxnews.ey.com/news/2023-1975-canadas-new-reporting-rules-for-digital-platform-operato...

"The Act defines a TIN as a number used by the minister to identify an individual or entity, such as a social insurance number, business number or an account number issued to a trust. For a jurisdiction other than Canada, a TIN is a taxpayer identification number, including a VAT/GST registration number issued by the jurisdiction of the seller's primary address." 

[mrdutch1001]

as a near 8 decades old senior on a fixed income and have not needed and/or been required to pay income tax for many many years now, NO ONE other than that Fed.entity, will ever need my SI # and that includes eBay never needing it!.... So.... for the rest of you folks> accept,adjust,adapt and carry on!

[marnotom!]

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@rosscd57 wrote:

I worked in Human Resources for over 40 years and have come up against this issue many times. You do not have to give out your SIN number to anyone else but the Federal Government.  They can ask but your are not required to divulge it. . . .

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It's a SIN, not a "SIN number".  We don't refer to it as a "Social Insurance Number Number" when spelling it out.

Nit-picking aside, there's a code of practice regarding the use of SINs, and a section of the code regarding the private sector use of SINs.  I think eBay's use of the SIN falls into that section.  Two excerpts:

In certain cases, private sector organizations may collect the Social Insurance Number (SIN). These include employment and income tax purposes. 

and

Your private sector organization does not have the legal authority to request clients’ SINs for any reason, except to report income.   (My emphasis.)

Can you imagine the chaos if people were able to refuse to provide their SINs to employers requiring them to produce T4s?  I don't see eBay's collection of the SIN at CRA's behest as being different in principle.  I don't think this will "blow away" if sellers refuse to provide their SIN.

[sin-n-dex]

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@fergua3 wrote:

Other than privacy concerns,  i don't see providing SIN's as a big deal.    Declare the income you make, if you're supposd to and you have nothing to worry about,  or don't,  at your peril.  But with the hundreds of thousands of small sellers that will be effected by this, there is no way the CRA will be able to 'crack down' on everyone.  They will probably just go  after the biggest fish and a small number of small fish so stories spread to scare everyone 'straight'.  

The only reason i don't like it is i don't want to give my SIN to Ebay....i consider them very hackable.

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CRA has been going after big fish on eBay for years, even without having our SINs. Someone at the B&M store (about 5 years ago) sold 50K of stuff on eBay and CRA came after him. He didn't keep receipts or records and got a 10K tax bill.

The story was scary enough that I started reporting my income. It was only $200-300 a month at the time, but I knew it might mushroom into something big enough the CRA is interested in.

I'm going to point something out as an interesting aside... as nosy as the CRA is about us running our eBay business, your home insurance company will be a whole lot nosier wanting details and such. A lot of home insurance companies will not insure someone selling on eBay with a CGL in place (however this will depend on your gross revenue, yes, gross revenue, the home insurance people don't care if you sell a ton and take a loss, they care how much inventory you're moving through your residential home). I speak from experience as someone who was dropped from my home insurance for selling on eBay and had a hard time finding someone else who would insure me without requiring a CGL. I got a quote for a CGL and they wanted a premium of $2400 a year and that was only for liability.

C.

[flipistics]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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I'm going to point something out as an interesting aside... as nosy as the CRA is about us running our eBay business, your home insurance company will be a whole lot nosier wanting details and such. A lot of home insurance companies will not insure someone selling on eBay with a CGL in place (however this will depend on your gross revenue, yes, gross revenue, the home insurance people don't care if you sell a ton and take a loss, they care how much inventory you're moving through your residential home). I speak from experience as someone who was dropped from my home insurance for selling on eBay and had a hard time finding someone else who would insure me without requiring a CGL. I got a quote for a CGL and they wanted a premium of $2400 a year and that was only for liability.

C.

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It's not just home insurance. Most car insurance companies do not allow any commercial activities under a private policy, and that includes taking packages up to the post office.

[recped]

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@rosscd57 wrote:

I worked in Human Resources for over 40 years and have come up against this issue many times. You do not have to give out your SIN number to anyone else but the Federal Government.  They can ask but your are not required to divulge it. This isssue came up repeated ly in the *80's, and it was mostly US based companys that wanted the SIN number and the Government at the time told them to back off. The Feds  of course aready have your SIN number and rarley ask - if they do it is usually only for confirmarion. Ebay can ask - but you are not required to give it to them.

Here is a quote right of the Government site - or just looki it up yourself.

To work in Canada or access government programs and benefits, you need a 9-digit number known as a Social Insurance Number (SIN).

Your SIN is private and it is illegal for anyone else to use it. You are responsible for protecting your SIN.

Service Canada is responsible for issuing SINs, which comes in a paper format (Confirmation of SIN letter) or digitally if you are eligible by signing in or registering for My Service Canada Account (MSCA). If you have a plastic SIN card that has not expired, it is still valid but this format is no longer issued.

Don't give it to them and this thing will just blow away.

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If you actually worked in HR then you would know that all employees of any type of company will be required to provide their SIN.

If you have every opened a bank account (in the last 50 years) you know that an SIN must be provided.

If the Federal Government requires eBay to report revenues of their users then the Federal Government will require eBay to collect this information (SIN).

Of course you can refuse to give eBay your SIN, eBay won't care they will just permanently suspend your selling priveleges.

[mrdutch1001]

"If you have every opened a bank account (in the last 50 years) you know that an SIN must be provided."

?????????

I opened a bank account specifically for eBay, back in 2021 and did NOT have to provide mySI#.

[marnotom!]

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@mrdutch1001 wrote:

I opened a bank account specifically for eBay, back in 2021 and did NOT have to provide mySI#.

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Is it a bank account that doesn’t pay out interest?