TAXES collected by ebay???

[luckylegend]

I sold my Celine wallet (120cad) to some buyer in the US and noticed that there are taxes that he paid to me that ebay took.
It’s the first time I saw an invoice with this. Two weeks ago I sold a designer item and in the invoice there were no such Tax line (100cad value)

**bleep**? Since when does ebay take this amount? I will be shipping normally through canada post I don’t understand how ebay can charge taxes ahead? Paypal just substracted the taxes out under “tax collected by ebay”
What if they have to pay customs if their package gets caught???
What is it?

Description Unit price Qty Amount
Authentic CELINE Macadam pattern Brown Beige Leather wallet Woman Authentic Used
Item# 293255648162 $120.00 CAD 1 $120.00 CAD

Shipping and handling $19.77 CAD
Insurance - not offered ----
Tax $9.30 CAD
Total $149.07 CAD
Payment $149.07 CAD

[recped]

Sales Tax is collected by eBay for specific States but not all of them. These taxes started in January but at that time only applied to a small number of States. More have been added recently (now in 34 States).

More details here: https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/paying-items/paying-tax-ebay-purchases?id=4771#section3

[luckylegend]

Oh i just saw a post about it...
Lol so it looks like I am gonna pay my 10% on those taxes plus taxes on taxes!!! Wonderful!!!!
Genius ebay

[tyler@ebay]

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@luckylegend wrote:
Oh i just saw a post about it...
Lol so it looks like I am gonna pay my 10% on those taxes plus taxes on taxes!!! Wonderful!!!!
Genius ebay

---

Hi @luckylegend - to clarify, your eBay fees are only calculated on the item price and any charged shipping amounts. You do not pay Final Value Fees on any  sales tax/HST/GST/VAT charged to your buyer (Canadian or American).  

PayPal does charge fees based on the total gross amount you receive, which means you will see your PayPal fees increase to buyers within US states where sales tax is required to be collected.

[luckylegend]

Ohhh great! That a relief!!! Paypal 3% is better than 10% from ebay

[reallynicestamps]

Lol so it looks like I am gonna pay my 10% on those taxes plus taxes on taxes!!! Wonderful!!!!

No you only pay 3.7% of the tax that you never touched, didn't collect, are not authorized to collect, and is for a foreign government, to Paypal.

Much better.

[teenytrinkets]

I'm going to start keeping track of the extra fees and file a PayPal dispute. I'm already at over a $1 .... hahaha

[gwrocen · Accepted solution]

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tyler@ebay wrote:

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@luckylegend wrote:
Oh i just saw a post about it...
Lol so it looks like I am gonna pay my 10% on those taxes plus taxes on taxes!!! Wonderful!!!!
Genius ebay

---

Hi @luckylegend - to clarify, your eBay fees are only calculated on the item price and any charged shipping amounts. You do not pay Final Value Fees on any  sales tax/HST/GST/VAT charged to your buyer (Canadian or American).  

PayPal does charge fees based on the total gross amount you receive, which means you will see your PayPal fees increase to buyers within US states where sales tax is required to be collected.

---

Tyler,

Your explanation re PayPal does not make sense and you are mistaken.

PayPal is wrong to charge Canadian sellers fees on money going to eBay and/or a US State as a state tax. 

We do NOT ever RECEIVE (see above)nor are we authorized to receive the amount of the state tax that eBay sees fit to 'flow through' and use our account to collect.

PayPal is wrong to allow eBay to use our personal accounts just as the Royal Bank of Canada would  be wrong to grant permission to any third party to use our personal bank account.

That is not something that I allowed PayPal to do.  I understood there to be a rule of PRIVACY in the Terms and Conditions.

I am surprised that more Canadian sellers are not outraged that PayPal and eBay have conspired to use our accounts by forcing us to accept US State taxes into our personal accounts that eBay is required to collect.  That is surely illegal for eBay and PayPal to do.   Maybe it's an intimidation factor that if we protest too much we will get kicked off of eBay and kicked out of PayPal? We as Canadian sellers have done nothing wrong.

.                                                                                                                                                                                   

.

.

Tyler, your answer to my questions that I posted on the November 7th Weekly Discussion in regard to PayPal charging me a fee on money that is not mine, was not meant to be mine and that is illegal to be in my personal account because I am not authorized to collect State Taxes is not a solution.

I feel I am being punished when you say that if I don't want to follow eBay's rules that I can just leave or quit selling to some Americans.   eBay had no right to ask PayPal and be granted access to my personal PayPal account.  I do not owe eBay any money.  My fees are all paid up

and have always been paid up on time over the last 21 years.   My family and I have been selling on eBay since 1998. We have a 100% record. We have not done anything wrong. I do not like someone else having access to my personal account with PayPal just like I would not like the Royal Bank of Canada granting anyone else access to my personal bank account.

I do not like it that eBay has colluded with PayPal to freely access my personal account when I do not owe eBay any money.

I do not like it that PayPal has given a third party access to MY PERSONAL ACCOUNT.

Would you feel comfortable having strangers being granted access to your "bank" account?

Sincerely

gwrocen

[femmefan1946]

@gwrocen 

I am surprised that more Canadian sellers are not outraged that PayPal and eBay have conspired to use our accounts by forcing us to accept US State taxes into our personal accounts that eBay is required to collect.

At this point not enough Canadian sellers are aware of what is happening. And for most each the fee on the taxes is pennies.

It's at year end, and for larger sellers, that the total will emerge. 

I suspect that rather than a huge conspiracy, this was another poorly thought through easy way out.

The buyer has to pay state tax? Put it on the buyer's invoice and don't show the invoice as paid until the taxes are covered too. Then pull them out swiftly and remit the tax to the appropriate state.

Simple.

But the unforeseen consequence was that no one thought to have a chat with Paypal about this.

And now sellers are beginning to figure it out.

It's interesting that most of the screaming and wailing on dotCOM seems to be from sellers who either think THEY are paying the tax or that THEY have to do something about the tax.

The worse the spelling the louder the screams, as usual.

Few have remarked on the PP fees.

I'm loathe to call this a "cash grab", since it would not surprise me if Paypal were entirely unaware of the problem. Their robots look at the total payment and take the applicable fees. Totally automated.

Matthew 6:3

The question is-- how should eBay and Paypal correct this so that the money collected for taxes by eBay using PP has the PP fees correctly assigned?

[pjcdn2005]

I am surprised that more Canadian sellers are not outraged that PayPal and eBay have conspired to use our accounts by forcing us to accept US State taxes into our personal accounts that eBay is required to collect. That is surely illegal for eBay and PayPal to do. Maybe it's an intimidation factor that if we protest too much we will get kicked off of eBay and kicked out of PayPal? We as Canadian sellers have done nothing wrong.

There are lots of upset posts about this on the US boards simply because there are more posters there and perhaps because they do seem to complain more.  Most of those posters aren't obligated on their own to charge sales tax either but they are in the same situation. Of course they only have to pay  2.9% vs the 3.7% that we have to pay.  

 I don't think that I've heard of someone being banned from using ebay just because they spoke out so I doubt that people are quiet about this because they are worried about getting kicked off of the site. It's more likely that they have seen how sellers over the years have protested over the years about numerous changes and how ebay generally does what they want to do.  They have changed the odd decision when there has been backlash but that seems to be quite rare.   We all have different things that bother us...we each have to decide which ones are most important to speak out about.  

You keep saying that what they are doing is illegal. I'm sure that ebay lawyers looked into every legal aspect of this before it started so I would be surprised if it was illegal.  After all they have to right to put holds on our funds and take them out if we lose a dispute so they already have their hands in our accounts. But I don't have a problem saying that it does seem immoral that ebay  arranged for funds to flow through our account knowing that we would have to pay fees on those accounts even though it is ebay collecting and remitting those funds..not us.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Curious to know if we would have felt any differently if this had been released in a more transparent way when it was announced in the Oct 1 announcement where it was mentioned in passing. It was only covered in a slightly more detailed way (Left entirely interpretation verbiage) in the Nov 4,2019 announcement, so it's possible, to some it felt like as if it was "expressed in a way for most of us not to fully understand" basically by surprise. I understand it was included in the September eBay Sellers agreement, which on average  most sellers do not take the time to read verbatim. I know I didn't. Hands up please for anyone that has it memorized from start to finish?

-Lotz

PS. Below is what I received from an eBay CS supervisor OCT 4,2019 after much prodding and several operators. See critical section in red.

Your call to eBay Customer Service SR# XXXXXXXXXX(Available by request)

Hello,

This is Kean, I was the supervisor you have talked to earlier. As promised, I'm sending you this email to summarize what we have talked about over the phone.

We've talked about the new sales tax update where sellers will be the one to receive the tax money together with the item cost plus shipping as part of the new update as shown on our Announcement boards:

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Announcements/US-Internet-Sales-Tax/ba-p/428022

As discussed, the new update will also take place on PayPal. We have confirmed that the full payment which consists the item cost, shipping cost and sales tax will be charged the PayPal processing fee.

We have already raised the concerns about the taxes being charged for PayPal fees and we're waiting for updates about it. Any updates will not be communicated to you directly but rather be announced soon if there are changes to happen.

If you have other questions, please let us know.

[tyler@ebay]

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@gwrocen wrote:

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tyler@ebay wrote:

---

@luckylegend wrote:
Oh i just saw a post about it...
Lol so it looks like I am gonna pay my 10% on those taxes plus taxes on taxes!!! Wonderful!!!!
Genius ebay

---

Hi @luckylegend - to clarify, your eBay fees are only calculated on the item price and any charged shipping amounts. You do not pay Final Value Fees on any  sales tax/HST/GST/VAT charged to your buyer (Canadian or American).  

PayPal does charge fees based on the total gross amount you receive, which means you will see your PayPal fees increase to buyers within US states where sales tax is required to be collected.

---

Tyler,

Your explanation re PayPal does not make sense and you are mistaken.

PayPal is wrong to charge Canadian sellers fees on money going to eBay and/or a US State as a state tax. 

We do NOT ever RECEIVE (see above)nor are we authorized to receive the amount of the state tax that eBay sees fit to 'flow through' and use our account to collect.

PayPal is wrong to allow eBay to use our personal accounts just as the Royal Bank of Canada would  be wrong to grant permission to any third party to use our personal bank account.

That is not something that I allowed PayPal to do.  I understood there to be a rule of PRIVACY in the Terms and Conditions.

I am surprised that more Canadian sellers are not outraged that PayPal and eBay have conspired to use our accounts by forcing us to accept US State taxes into our personal accounts that eBay is required to collect.  That is surely illegal for eBay and PayPal to do.   Maybe it's an intimidation factor that if we protest too much we will get kicked off of eBay and kicked out of PayPal? We as Canadian sellers have done nothing wrong.

.                                                                                                                                                                                   

.

.

Tyler, your answer to my questions that I posted on the November 7th Weekly Discussion in regard to PayPal charging me a fee on money that is not mine, was not meant to be mine and that is illegal to be in my personal account because I am not authorized to collect State Taxes is not a solution.

I feel I am being punished when you say that if I don't want to follow eBay's rules that I can just leave or quit selling to some Americans.   eBay had no right to ask PayPal and be granted access to my personal PayPal account.  I do not owe eBay any money.  My fees are all paid up

and have always been paid up on time over the last 21 years.   My family and I have been selling on eBay since 1998. We have a 100% record. We have not done anything wrong. I do not like someone else having access to my personal account with PayPal just like I would not like the Royal Bank of Canada granting anyone else access to my personal bank account.

I do not like it that eBay has colluded with PayPal to freely access my personal account when I do not owe eBay any money.

I do not like it that PayPal has given a third party access to MY PERSONAL ACCOUNT.

Would you feel comfortable having strangers being granted access to your "bank" account?

Sincerely

gwrocen

---

Hi @gwrocen - I appreciate you sharing your input on this and am happy to review where you feel that I am incorrect.  Specifics about US State sales tax collection on eBay can be found here. We announced this process change on the 1st of October, link here.  

While I'm sorry that I haven't been able to provide you a solution, I've provided you the extent of the information that I have available on the mandate to collect and the collection process. I understand that you disagree with this on a more fundamental level, and that frustration and disagreement is something I've made sure to share with the right folks. 

[barnfindparts]

Paypal charging fees on the gross amount including STATE SALES TAXES is just flat out wrong and a sleazy disgusting policy no matter how they spin it. Its bad enough  Ebay and paypal charge fees on shipping costs. 

[snoopwiz]

Paypal charging fees on the gross amount including STATE SALES TAXES is just flat out wrong and a sleazy disgusting policy no matter how they spin it. Its bad enough  Ebay and paypal charge fees on shipping costs. 

I think you will have many agree with the first part of your post.  The 2nd part though is where you may lose support.  Here is why....

Should eBay allow sellers to sell a $351 amplifier for $1.00 and charge their buyer $350 for shipping the amp, thereby only having to pay fees on the $1.00 item fee as opposed to having to pay fees for the "real value" of $351? 

Not a fantasy scenario.  Lots and lots of that went on back in the day. 

[briankelm]

I have noticed that they just started doing this, the customer has to pay the taxes to the seller, then ebay and paypal take a percentage of that from the seller roughly 13% then ebay bills the seller to recover the sales tax. This is a scam as plain as the nose on your face, not to mention the fees that they charge on shipping roughly 10% for this also. I think ebay is shooting themselves in the foot, I have cut back on many items that I used to list, because if your not careful the fees get uncontrollable.

[luckylegend]

Ebay has a CALCULATOR that can calculate the exact cost based on weight. I don’t think you need a genius software engineer to figure out the average weight and dimensions of boots, winter fur coat or a silk dress to be able to find approximate cost. Obviously some sellers opt for setting a flat rate and all , but it may be an incentive for people to use normal post especially here in US or canada where post fraud is not as high as in the philipines for example.

On the other hand ebay could just lower their comission from 10% to offset what they make on the shipping but it won’t happen and we all know it. Sellers just have to get used to it when calculating their profit...

[femmefan1946]

the average weight and dimensions of boots, winter fur coat or a silk dress to be able to find approximate cost.

Steel toed work boots?

Fashion boots?

Height of shaft?

Size 6 ladies or Size 13 men's?

Cowhide or suede?

Type of fur?

Length of coat?

Is the fur the lining of a gabardine coat or is it the shell with a satin lining?

Buffalo or rabbit?

Silk jersey or brocade?

Mini or evening length?

Embroidery and other decorative trims?

[femmefan1946]

On the other hand ebay could just lower their comission from 10% to offset what they make on the shipping

They did. When the shipping fee came in nearly a decade ago, other fees were lowered.

[luckylegend]

I checked some items a while back and it doesn’t matter so much , difference in 200 g is not changing the cost so much unless it’s putting itself in a new category of shipment. In our case satin bra and silk bra has same cost of shipping.

As for the shoe size, female, male type of fur all of that info is in our fields that we have to fill in. It can pull that info out of there

In canada we have poshmark now and they somehow manage to ship things with a flat rate of 12.99 and i bet they make profit . Yes they have higher comission ... but the shipping cost is not arbitrary. I am sure they are not losing money