eBay

38e_avenue · ‎03-27-2023

Hi, I got 3 returns from the EU within 1 month only. I contacted the buyers, they had no idea the package reached their postal offices. All of the packages (from 3 different countries!) were marked as "not claimed". Anyone had a similar problem recently?

fergua3 · ‎03-27-2023

that's what i've done. I used to literally ship to any country in the world but over the years, as the problems mounted i narrowed the countries i shipped to. But i still would ship to a lot of them. When the EU got their new VAT rules a year and a half ago i had nothing but problems and quickly shut down shipping to all of Europe. Now it's just US, UK, Australia and New Zealand.

I have never ever had problems shipping to the UK, Australia, or New Zealand and they have the same VAT system. The problem is the way the EU is administrating their system, i guess...

brettjet38 · ‎03-27-2023

Well, that puts the VAT theory to bed...

I always manually add the VAT (or other) reference numbers in black marker to the outside of the package and make sure it is printed on the shipping label.

eaglestead · ‎03-27-2023

Our observation is the VAT is likely part of the issue and, in our cases, the use of the Canada Post Tracked Packet Intl.. We've had two recent instances. A shipment to Belgium had the customer being notified of arrival AND that VAT was due even though the VAT Paid IOSS Number was clearly in the address field and the documentation. The customer complained that we hadn't used a eBay "Click and Collect" function which is all that their postal service recognizes; we have not identified such as system for use on eBay Canada. A second case with Germany has the customer complaining they did not receive any notice even though the the Buyer had access to but seemingly didn't access. After two months it was returned as Unclaimed. Our inspection of the package shows that Deutsche Post DHL was trying to levy the VAT a second time along with a collection fee - even though the VAT Paid IOSS number was prominently displayed. We have not encountered the problem with Air Mail Lettermail which is our dominant method of shipment to Europe. Specific suggestions of how to improve / correct the display of VAT information would be appreciated.

reallynicestamps · ‎03-28-2023

devon@ebay

Welp-- here we go again.

EBay Canada shipping labels (including Canada Post and Shippo) that are not giving enough information to the receiving postal service.

As @eaglestead says " Specific suggestions of how to improve / correct the display of VAT information would be appreciated. "

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎03-28-2023

@reallynicestamps wrote:
devon@ebay

Welp-- here we go again.
EBay Canada shipping labels (including Canada Post and Shippo) that are not giving enough information to the receiving postal service.

As @eaglestead says " Specific suggestions of how to improve / correct the display of VAT information would be appreciated. "

@reallynicestamps

Here is the original eBay Seller Team Announcement on the subject of VAT from July 2021. From my checking there was never anything further released to Canadian sellers on the subject.

Please be advised that Canada Post has not yet updated their services to follow the new EU VAT regulations (IOSS) which went into effect on July 1, 2021. If you sell an item valued up to €150 to a buyer in the European Union, eBay is obliged to automatically collect the VAT from the buyer. This means that, should you ship your item with Canada Post to your buyer in the EU, they may be forced to pay the VAT amount again at the time of delivery or reject the package to be sent back to you at your cost. Your shipments to Canada, US, and countries outside of EU are not affected.

It appears little has been done since (by the parties involved = eBay~~> Postage processing systems) to make sure the buyer does not pay VAT twice. There should have been a bit more cooperation, but this never happened, after the fact.

-Lotz

doc_scribe · ‎03-28-2023

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
Please be advised that Canada Post has not yet updated their services to follow the new EU VAT regulations (IOSS) which went into effect on July 1, 2021. If you sell an item valued up to €150 to a buyer in the European Union, eBay is obliged to automatically collect the VAT from the buyer. This means that, should you ship your item with Canada Post to your buyer in the EU, they may be forced to pay the VAT amount again at the time of delivery or reject the package to be sent back to you at your cost. Your shipments to Canada, US, and countries outside of EU are not affected.

It appears little has been done since (by the parties involved = eBay~~> Postage processing systems) to make sure the buyer does not pay VAT twice. There should have been a bit more cooperation, but this never happened, after the fact.

-Lotz

Whoa. If true, that would explain a lot.

The Good News: With tracking on everything shipped Internationally and tax reference info printed on the Customs Slip, at least I'm not seeing any unexpected returns from the EU or elsewhere.

The Bad News: Sales have all but evaporated from formerly solid overseas markets like the UK, Eurozone, and Oceania, with questions like "What is the total including all taxes?", or "Will there be any additional fees upon delivery?" now more routine than rare.

dinomitesales · ‎03-28-2023

From Canada Post's perspective, just including the IOSS/VAT number in the address field on the shipping label isn't enough. There is a specific spot where you need to paste that number when purchasing postage on SnapShip/EST or Shippo - if you're not doing that then it's entirely possible that no one at the destination country's customs office is even seeing it. Canada Post actually recommends against having the IOSS/VAT number visible at all on the exterior of the package (including in the address field).

Read here: https://origin-stg12.canadapost.ca/cpc/en/support/kb/sending/rates-dimensions/eu-vat-faq-support-can...

The retail RPOS system has still not been updated to allow the IOSS/VAT number to be entered electronically when buying postage at the counter. Unknown what their timeline is on getting that added (or if they even plan to), they seem to just want everyone to print their postage online if they have a tax ID number to include.

doc_scribe · ‎03-28-2023

@dinomitesales wrote:

Read here: https://origin-stg12.canadapost.ca/cpc/en/support/kb/sending/rates-dimensions/eu-vat-faq-support-can...

The retail RPOS system has still not been updated to allow the IOSS/VAT number to be entered electronically when buying postage at the counter. Unknown what their timeline is on getting that added (or if they even plan to), they seem to just want everyone to print their postage online if they have a tax ID number to include.

But hasn't this now become eBay's bailiwick under their Managed Payments collection and remittance of applicable Buyer taxes? If anything is amiss here, it would seem to be a more hand-in-glove fit between their activity and the destination customs.

From our Seller POV, having zero visibility or authority over that side of an eBay transaction, once we have uploaded a valid tracking number and it becomes active, it is not unreasonable for us to expect that some kind of 'chain of custody' will kick-in to provide the receiving country with all of the information necessary to confirm pre-payment of that tax.

For some countries - increasing by the day - that inbound levy is already a whopping amount of coin over our sale price with shipping. And if those tax hits are being duplicated...wow...no wonder some deliveries are going unclaimed...

marnotom! · ‎03-28-2023

@doc_scribe wrote:
But hasn't this now become eBay's bailiwick under their Managed Payments collection and remittance of applicable Buyer taxes? If anything is amiss here, it would seem to be a more hand-in-glove fit between their activity and the destination customs.

eBay isn't the only digital marketplace out there. Some of them have their own version of managed payments, others don't, but it wouldn't make any difference to what the buyer and seller experience.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-29-2023

devon@ebay

There still seems to be some problems being related both here and on the US boards with some EU buyers having to pay VAT to eBay and then again to customs when they pick up the parcel. Or in some cases, they may not be picking up the packages at all because they don't want to pay VAT again. I believe that ebay will add the IOSS/VAT number on to the label but according to CP the EU wants this number sent electronically. I've also seen posts from EU buyers who were told that the IOSS number on the envelope didn't mean anything, it needed to be sent electronically.

Based on what the link that @dinomitesales provided in post 27, CP says, the ISOS number needs to be entered in the customs field,not on the envelope. The following info inbetween the ---- are instructions from CP on adding the number when using Snapship and EST but I would think it would be the same on any online custom forms.

---------------------------

SnapShip and Shipping Manager:

Under Step 5 ‘Customs’ section, enter IOSS number in the ‘Tax ID/IRS number’ field.
ONLY enter the IOSS number in the following format- IMxxxxxxxxxx

Note: Commercial customers will not be able to transmit the IOSS number if creating a label at any Retail post office. They will need to use one of the shipping systems above and then drop the package off at a Retail post office.

Commercial customers using an online shipping platform (like eBay or Etsy) will need to receive further instructions from their online shipping platform. In the short term, if a customer shipping to the EU would like to include an IOSS number, they can do so by creating an account in SnapShip and following the instructions above.

-------------------------

I normally use Shippo which I am fairly sure has a Tax ID field in the customs area and I think that ebay labels too do. Perhaps someone can confim if they they do? If that's the case, it's odd that ebay doesn't automatically add their IOSS number in that field or at least tell us to do that. I wonder if doing something as simple as that will stop these double VAT payments for buyers? I stopped selling to most overseas ountries as I saw the problems VAT was causing so haven't had a problem myself but am still saying complaints about some double VAT payments.

Devon is it possible to find out if we should be entering the IOSS/VAT number into the field directly on the online customs form or perhaps ebay could include that number automatically in that field?

tuckhouse2021 · ‎03-30-2023

Yes, I too have encountered problems similar and have had two packages returned by DHL in a very similar situation to this. The buyers put in claims for INR and I had to pay only months later to receive the packages in the mail with all kinds of stickers saying not claimed. The buyer denied being notified of the package's arrival and I think that DHL also was tryng to charge the fees again even though the IOSS number and the VAT had been paid and was electonically submitted and also physically written on the parcel with paper copies inside.

I have another seller in Denmark who is routinely charged the VAT again despite all the proper packaging and documentation being done at my end to show that it had been paid.

tuckhouse2021 · ‎03-30-2023

HI-I add the number in every situation as appropriate following these above instructions and it seems to be ignored or not noted. I can only find the one spot in the label to add the IOSS number and I truly think it does not show at the other end. I get messages from the buyers as above that it does not show electonically even though I added it to the proper part of the electonic label. Also, yes, I have been told that writing it on the package is useless.

doc_scribe · ‎03-30-2023

@fergua3 wrote:
that's what i've done. I used to literally ship to any country in the world but over the years, as the problems mounted i narrowed the countries i shipped to. But i still would ship to a lot of them. When the EU got their new VAT rules a year and a half ago i had nothing but problems and quickly shut down shipping to all of Europe. Now it's just US, UK, Australia and New Zealand.

I have never ever had problems shipping to the UK, Australia, or New Zealand and they have the same VAT system. The problem is the way the EU is administrating their system, i guess...

Initially, I thought this issue might simply be a matter of better housekeeping end-to-end. But the more I read this thread, it seems just a matter of time before some wonky EU Customs practice creates an unnecessarily expensive shipping fail.

Until resolved, and with great reluctance, I have joined your 'Dear Prudence' club @fergua3.

devon@ebay · ‎03-31-2023

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

devon@ebay

There still seems to be some problems being related both here and on the US boards with some EU buyers having to pay VAT to eBay and then again to customs when they pick up the parcel. Or in some cases, they may not be picking up the packages at all because they don't want to pay VAT again. I believe that ebay will add the IOSS/VAT number on to the label but according to CP the EU wants this number sent electronically. I've also seen posts from EU buyers who were told that the IOSS number on the envelope didn't mean anything, it needed to be sent electronically.

Based on what the link that @dinomitesales provided in post 27, CP says, the ISOS number needs to be entered in the customs field,not on the envelope. The following info inbetween the ---- are instructions from CP on adding the number when using Snapship and EST but I would think it would be the same on any online custom forms.

---------------------------

SnapShip and Shipping Manager:

Under Step 5 ‘Customs’ section, enter IOSS number in the ‘Tax ID/IRS number’ field.

ONLY enter the IOSS number in the following format- IMxxxxxxxxxx

Note: Commercial customers will not be able to transmit the IOSS number if creating a label at any Retail post office. They will need to use one of the shipping systems above and then drop the package off at a Retail post office.

Commercial customers using an online shipping platform (like eBay or Etsy) will need to receive further instructions from their online shipping platform. In the short term, if a customer shipping to the EU would like to include an IOSS number, they can do so by creating an account in SnapShip and following the instructions above.

-------------------------

I normally use Shippo which I am fairly sure has a Tax ID field in the customs area and I think that ebay labels too do. Perhaps someone can confim if they they do? If that's the case, it's odd that ebay doesn't automatically add their IOSS number in that field or at least tell us to do that. I wonder if doing something as simple as that will stop these double VAT payments for buyers? I stopped selling to most overseas ountries as I saw the problems VAT was causing so haven't had a problem myself but am still saying complaints about some double VAT payments.

Devon is it possible to find out if we should be entering the IOSS/VAT number into the field directly on the online customs form or perhaps ebay could include that number automatically in that field?

Hi @pjcdn2005! Thank you for sharing this information. Let me get this over to our Shipping Team so they can take a deeper look into this. If there are any updates I can share from them I will be sure to let you know.

doc_scribe · ‎03-31-2023

Thank you devon@ebay , and please include the comments by @eaglestead regarding "Click and Collect":

"Our observation is the VAT is likely part of the issue and, in our cases, the use of the Canada Post Tracked Packet Intl.. We've had two recent instances. A shipment to Belgium had the customer being notified of arrival AND that VAT was due even though the VAT Paid IOSS Number was clearly in the address field and the documentation. The customer complained that we hadn't used a eBay "Click and Collect" function which is all that their postal service recognizes; we have not identified such as system for use on eBay Canada. A second case with Germany has the customer complaining they did not receive any notice even though the the Buyer had access to but seemingly didn't access. After two months it was returned as Unclaimed. Our inspection of the package shows that Deutsche Post DHL was trying to levy the VAT a second time along with a collection fee - even though the VAT Paid IOSS number was prominently displayed. We have not encountered the problem with Air Mail Lettermail which is our dominant method of shipment to Europe. Specific suggestions of how to improve / correct the display of VAT information would be appreciated."

Like some of the other Sellers here, "Click and Collect" jumped off the page for me...never heard of it. Is this a 'real', or merely 'hoped for'. upcoming eBay feature???

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎03-31-2023

@doc_scribe wrote:
Thank you devon@ebay , and please include the comments by @eaglestead regarding "Click and Collect":

"Our observation is the VAT is likely part of the issue and, in our cases, the use of the Canada Post Tracked Packet Intl.. We've had two recent instances. A shipment to Belgium had the customer being notified of arrival AND that VAT was due even though the VAT Paid IOSS Number was clearly in the address field and the documentation. The customer complained that we hadn't used a eBay "Click and Collect" function which is all that their postal service recognizes; we have not identified such as system for use on eBay Canada. A second case with Germany has the customer complaining they did not receive any notice even though the the Buyer had access to but seemingly didn't access. After two months it was returned as Unclaimed. Our inspection of the package shows that Deutsche Post DHL was trying to levy the VAT a second time along with a collection fee - even though the VAT Paid IOSS number was prominently displayed. We have not encountered the problem with Air Mail Lettermail which is our dominant method of shipment to Europe. Specific suggestions of how to improve / correct the display of VAT information would be appreciated."

Like some of the other Sellers here, "Click and Collect" jumped off the page for me...never heard of it. Is this a 'real', or merely 'hoped for'. upcoming eBay feature???

devon@ebay

@doc_scribe

Unsure of the how US sellers are marking their VAT shipments but double pay is hitting their buyers too.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/EU-buyer-charged-VAT-upon-receipt-eBay-already-charged-them/m-...

-Lotz

marnotom! · ‎03-31-2023

@doc_scribe wrote:

Like some of the other Sellers here, "Click and Collect" jumped off the page for me...never heard of it. Is this a 'real', or merely 'hoped for'. upcoming eBay feature???

A bit of Googling suggests that "Click and Collect" is a UK service.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sellercentre/postage/click-and-collect/

msmaggie060 · ‎04-01-2023

When using CP Snap Ship there is a specific place within the form to input your IOSS number. I never write or include the IOSS number in the address nor do I write it on the envelope and so far I have not had any problems. You also need to make sure that you fill in the HS Code and Originating Country information. It is required.

tuckhouse2021 · ‎04-01-2023

When using CP Snap Ship there is a specific place within the form to input your IOSS number.

Hi-Yes I am aware of the spot to add the IOSS number in the customs forms but feedback from my buyers is that it does not show electronically at the other end. I have added it here, put it on the paperwork inside the package and put it on the outside of the package. Nothing I do seems to solve the problem.

msmaggie060 · ‎04-01-2023

@tuckhouse2021 wrote:
When using CP Snap Ship there is a specific place within the form to input your IOSS number.

Hi-Yes I am aware of the spot to add the IOSS number in the customs forms but feedback from my buyers is that it does not show electronically at the other end. I have added it here, put it on the paperwork inside the package and put it on the outside of the package. Nothing I do seems to solve the problem.

Are you using CP Snap Ship or eBay labels? Possibly the problem is only when using the eBay labels?
Looks like Devon will be checking into this for us.