What happens when a buyer sends back something you didn't send them?

[momcqueen]

Remorse return.

Arrived today, opened box. It's not what I sent them. It's beat-up and there's hair stuck to the tape and they kept their 'gift with purchase' which is the least of my concerns. 

I guess I have to call Customer Service.

Groooooooan. 

After so many many months of problem-free transactions, now I'm looking at two in short order and both a result of buyers from Quebec which I find odd.

[momcqueen]

I woke at 5 am this morning to discover the case was settled overnight and I lost. 

Adding insult to injury, the Customer Service Rep will speak only French to me. Fortunately, like everyone else on earth, I am fluent in Googletranslate. 

She says I should take the matter to police and that I will be held accountable for the refund since the buyer returned an item and there's no proof they wrecked it, and that sometimes transactions on ebay end badly and that's just the way it is.

From the case details:

L'objet vous a été livré. Le Service à la clientèle d'eBay va rembourser l'acheteur et débiter votre compte PayPal de ce montant. Nous comprenons votre mécontentement de constater que l'état de l'objet a changé, mais nous n'avons malheureusement reçu aucune preuve indiquant que l'acheteur est responsable de ce problème.     Renseignements sur le remboursement: Un montant de correspondant à ce remboursement sera débité de votre compte PayPal ou porté à votre compte vendeur. Décision finale : Le litige a été réglé en faveur de l'acheteur.

So, on the weekend, which is my next available opportunity to take a drive to the local police station, I will file my police report over returns fraud. What good does this do exactly?

What process is in place for appeal to ebay? What documentation do I need to support this?

I'm trying to tag our ebay reps for insight but it's only giving me an at-symbol-plus-hashtag-and-the-word-login this morning. I'll contact them or try again later, I guess. 

[esclyons]

i wouldn't waste my precious time with a police report. I don't think anything would ever come from it. i would block the buyer, and pick up the pieces the best you can. and move on.. I would also add the buyers name and address to your do not send to list. in case they try again with a different i.d.,

 You have more important things to worry about than a horrible buyer.  Were you not able to do a partial refund, minus the damage. or was that not an option..  Good news is busy season will be upon you before you know it..:)

[momcqueen]

Probably, it would be smart to move on but this has moved into The Principle territory.

ebay.fr has responded that I have five days to find enough evidence to support my claim and that the key piece of that evidence is my police report so I will take all my precious evidence and documentation to the local detachment and hope they don't laugh me out of the place for wasting their time with mail fraud. 

[esclyons]

wish you  the best of luck,  hope it goes well.

[momcqueen]

Thank you. I've already lost the case and the buyer is getting back their money but what I hope I would 'win' on appeal is the removal of  defect on my account for not resolving the issue (if one exists; it's not showing one yet) and the ability to have negative feedback removed (if it's coming from the buyer on this transaction) and also, of course, my money back for this (from ebay, I guess in the form of a courtesy refund or credit) since what the buyer sent back to me is not salable anymore. It's open, damaged, and whose hair is this anyway?

Plus, the buyer had the gall to keep his 'free gift' because he assumed it was his due. 

That last part is the least of my worries but it does illustrate, to me, a problem with ebay Returns in that Customer Support for sellers doesn't seem to clarify or care to clarify what was sent back if at all. I had clear evidence this item was damaged. Yet this we'll-cover-you-if-it-comes-back-damaged was a main selling point for offering Free Returns in the webinar I did with them.

If anything, this whole situation puts another nail in that Free Returns coffin. Less likely than ever.

If I had offered Free Returns on this, I'd have lost the item, the money from its sale, my gift with purchase granted to the buyer, plus another $15 on Return postage. Sure, ebay says you can offer a partial refund on a free return if the item comes back damaged but they've shown just how much they care about that with this case now, haven't they? 

I don't assume the worst until someone shows me it's the most reliable assumption. 

[2nd-time-around-jewelry]

That really sucks!  EBay just doesn't care about the seller anymore, doesn't want to hear their side of the story or get involved. Just make the buyer happy no matter whether he is right or wrong. Selling used to be fun on eBay but now it is just frustrating.  Sellers are constantly looking over their shoulder & wondering when the next problem will arise.

[marnotom!]

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@momcqueen wrote:

That last part is the least of my worries but it does illustrate, to me, a problem with ebay Returns in that Customer Support for sellers doesn't seem to clarify or care to clarify what was sent back if at all. I had clear evidence this item was damaged. Yet this we'll-cover-you-if-it-comes-back-damaged was a main selling point for offering Free Returns in the webinar I did with them.

If anything, this whole situation puts another nail in that Free Returns coffin. Less likely than ever.

Just out of curiosity, was the webinar produced by eBay USA, eBay Canada, or a different eBay branch altogether?

I'm wondering if because your case seems to have been handled by someone outside of North America there's a different set of standards being applied here than there would be for Europe 

Also, I'm wondering if your case would have been handled the same way if you had offered free returns.

To me, there seems to be a breakdown in the process.  In theory, you should have been able to hang onto the proceeds from your sale without having to get authorities involved, but what happens in practice seems to have been complicated for reasons that will remain unknown to us mere mortals.

I'll admit that while I do hang out in seller discussions, the likelihood of my wife and I re-entering the world of eBay selling are very slim ten years after our lifestyles changed and it became impractical to work it in with everything else we had going.  But after working more than thirteen years in brick and mortar retail, one important thing we learned from that and eBay is that not every sale is going to be a money maker and you can't come out smelling like a rose after every sale you make.  You just have to please most of the people most of the time within the narrow framework with which you're working.  There's too many people out there with baggage that we can't begin to understand, particularly online.  You have to guard against carrying that baggage for or with them.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

In cases such as these(and they seem to be the new norm), it's easy to see why eBay has become a complicated mess. Olden days. Describe item accurately, offer a few shipping options, ship timely and well. Item is received and hopefully, the customer is happy. If not you do what you can to resolve any problems with actual contact with the customer. Now with so many rules always changing, with everyone having their own interpretation of the rules or seemingly the spin of a wheel to settle disputes and then some customers and sellers doing anything they can to cheat the system, it's a very difficult maze to navigate. All this is doing is causing more frustration for everyone involved. I don't see a solution in the near future.

-CM

[retroman_studios]

I don't know if this helps but if the item was returned via Canada Post Parcel, what does the weight show on the return VS your original manifest? If it is a huge discrepancy, this could help the case. The weight should be printed on the label

[hlmacdon]

My impression from changes of late is the only way to "protect" yourself in situations involving return fraud is to offer free returns which allows for the restocking fee to be used. The problem with that is ebay has issued "guidelines" about what we "should" charge for restocking fees, which may become more of an issue in the future when they handle the payments. It would seem that ebay is trying to cut back on discretionary buyer reimbursements and move that financial burden to the seller as they have been on a run of cost reductions to help offset increased marketing costs. I've always found the best strategy is to be polite and respectful, but ask somewhat direct/probing questions in an effort to clarify any lingering questions about the return, damage, etc, and see if the buyer trips themselves up. It has worked to my benefit on a few occasions. Block the buyer id, block their email, and add them to the voodoo doll rack.

[patphotog]

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@momcqueen wrote:

Thank you. I've already lost the case and the buyer is getting back their money but what I hope I would 'win' on appeal is the removal of  defect on my account for not resolving the issue (if one exists; it's not showing one yet) and the ability to have negative feedback removed (if it's coming from the buyer on this transaction) and also, of course, my money back for this (from ebay, I guess in the form of a courtesy refund or credit) since what the buyer sent back to me is not salable anymore. It's open, damaged, and whose hair is this anyway?

I wish you could put is account name on this forum so all the participant could block him...I do support you ...I think we all are. Sellers on ebay are an open target for crooks. An open forum for ebay sellers on an independent platform will help all sellers to share information ie: account name and put them on the block list...until they change their account name. Just a thought. Good luck...Momcqueen

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Just curious, if you file a police report, will the local police in the buyer's area get in contact with him? If they will, then I'd definitely file one just to make a point and freak out that jerk 😉

[momcqueen]

Here is the Big Fat Defect I was expecting and, oddly, only this morning did I receive confirmation from ebay that my case is being appealed. I asked for that appeal on Sept 18 and now they're telling me it will be decided within 48 hours.... except I haven't gone to the police yet, I can't do that until tomorrow morning. I'm going to be hopping mad if the appeal is decided and lost before I am allowed to submit the evidence they requested, but there seems to be no way for me to even add supplemental information to this appeal case. 

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

If and when someone were to file a valid police report, between 2 different locations, how long would it take for Point A to process and then forward it on to Point B and then Point to return the results? Metropolitan area, Small Town or somewhere Rural? Might be extremely low on their priority list if it ever were to get due process and someone's full attention? Similar to porch theft. Unless there is clear camera evidence very difficult to make a case.

-CM 

[lucitabby]

Have you tried calling the police, Mo.

When I had to do my police report, I called the police and they came to my home.

I had all the paperwork printed out for the officer and he gave me a report number on the spot.

Might be worth your while to call them first.

[momcqueen]

I have in the past but they don’t attend your residence unless it’s a crime-in-progress or a crime against person. For what amounts to being less important than an insurance claim, I don’t think they’ll come. But there’s no harm in trying. Maybe it will save me the trip to make an online report. But in the past, even if I wanted to report a property crime or dangerous driving incident, I had to go to them and not merely call. I think it’s because you’re swearing a statement and they need to see who it is that’s doing it.

[momcqueen]

Although now you’ve kickstarted me thinking. This is fraud so maybe I can report it online to the Fraud Centre?

[momcqueen · Accepted solution]

A higher power has intervened and the outcome of the case has been reversed by the appeal.

We've reviewed your concerns and have reversed the outcome of the case. You don't need to take any additional action to reimburse eBay for the refund paid to the buyer, and eBay will make no further attempts to seek reimbursement from you. Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed. If you have other questions, please contact us. You can reach us by going to the eBay website and clicking "Help & Contact" in the upper right corner and then selecting "Contact eBay." Thanks, eBay

I 'm so relieved and grateful.

Faith restored. 

For the record this is Tyler's response to my query about it at the Weekly Chat is here. It is notable also as to how this would have worked had the item been a Free Return: https://community.ebay.ca/t5/forums/replypage/board-id/213/message-id/97839

[silverpinups]

I'm glad everything worked out for you....

It's a terrible thing to experience but on the flip-side it's good to go through the process of fighting it to the best of your ability and in the end it worked out in your favor.  

Most sellers would have just given up and refunded.

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

Glad to know that it worked out! At least it saved you a trip to the police tomorrow. Sets you up for a nice weekend!

So I guess eBay probably still refunded the buyer out of their own dime then?