eBay

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-17-2021

Just a dilem i have when i have a combined order of multiple items that are $60-75+ cause i'm basically charging and shipping with lettermail. I don't wanna take the risk to have an INR claim over a certain price, but at the same time taking a $15-20 lost for tracking is as well very high in percentage and does not makes sense too. I can't charge buyers for tracking cause i would not be competitive and would not sell those items

Just wondering what do you think about splitting the order and ships lettermail in two packages?

Do you think it could be badly perceived by a buyer?

Do you think it could make sense as risk/reward and that false INR cases are less likely to happen if a buyer receive two packages, might not take a shot to claim two in a row

Also i guess that if i drop two packages with same address at the same time in a mail box, in theory they should reach destination at the same time together?

ricarmic · ‎11-17-2021

My own opinion...

If it is a scammer they're going to scam you for both if there is no tracking.

If one actually gets lost in the mail then you're covered, but the odds of that are very very small.

If two items are mailed at the exact same time, they can arrive the same day or days apart (my record is over a month but that is for "box" type simpments...

Your world appears to be riskier than mine, I think really your decision is whether you want to track or not moreso than if you want to send in multiples.

(PS it also depends on how many items you sold in total, you've got built in shipping so each has at least 92c built in, so if you've sold 10 then the upgrade to tracking is only costing you $5 to $10 ish extra....)

reallynicestamps · ‎11-17-2021

One way to make a customer nervous is to ship a single order in multiple packages. Even more nervous when one package arrives before another.

You have to decide your comfort level for risk.

Some will happily mail off $100 items without tracking- particularly if the category is relatively scam-free and/or the customer is a regular.

As a new seller, you don't really have any regulars and sports cards can be fractious.

If you are using Free Shipping, you have some shipping cost built in to the selling price.

Or at least you do if you have been listening to the advice you've been given.

As ricarmic says, multiply that (hidden) cost by the number of items. That tells you how much the buyer has already paid for shipping.

And then subtract that from your cost for Expedited shipping (because you are signed up for your Solutions for Small Business card right?)

And now you know the amount above what you have already charged, it will cost you to shift from untracked LetterMail to tracked Expedited.

And ask yourself, is that cost for tracking worth your peace of mind?

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-17-2021

Actually thinking about it and even if i would ship lettermail, i would need to ship oversize so it would cost me $3.00. So it would be the same than two packages, cause it would cost me 2x $1.50. I guess two packages give a small extra protection so it's better to do it especially when it's the same price

Would you base your decision to ship tracked on the buyer profil? For exemple a buyer that have a lot of purchases recently and also leaving a lot of positive feedbacks, i guess we could consider risk might be lower to ship lettermail, cause we can see a tendacy from the buyer to confirm he received his items

I'm not set at all on when to use tracking or not, there's a big grey zone for me between $50 and $100 and in my category you can't sell adding tracking in this price range, or you just take yourself the lost of it on your item total price

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-18-2021

We wrote at the same time yersterday did not saw this message

One way to make a customer nervous is to ship a single order in multiple packages. Even more nervous when one package arrives before another

In some way i understand but when you think about it it's not uncommon, even when you order on amazon an order free shipping over $35, most of the time you do not receive items all together even if it was only one order and all shipped by amazon. Items are splitted and it shows that you will receive in multiple packages, never been problematic. 2 weeks ago i had one buyer buying 3 cards in 3 orders with a few hours between each, everytime the new order just after i shipped the previous, he ended me shipping 3 cards in 3 packages in like 24h, went positive anyway

I already decided to ship in two packages for this one but yeah it's still debatable i'm defenitely not set about my shipping method for single card $50-100 and multiple cards order $50-100. Huge grey zone for me. I'm uncomfortable also cause i did not shipped that many of those size, and even if i have no INR case yet i know that it's this size of orders scammers would aim. I think that multiple packages is one small anti scam method tho, i personally think a scammer would dare to claim one but less two cause it's suspicious so odds might be good to save half the order

I have 100% positive feedback buyer should not be nervous tho and obviously i contacted to say that due to the size of the order, he will receive cards in two packages. I think that's an understandable thing in my opinion from a buyer perspective

wecango88 · ‎11-18-2021

^ I am just seeing this post now and see you have shipped already...

But I saw no one mention using the Registered option for $9.75 on top of the envelope fee. It only works on flat paper objects that fit through their 2cm opening slot tool at the post office, but I have added it to thin bubble envelopes for tracking previously when shipping products. You have no insurance coverage on it though. Based on previous experiece, trading cards are paper even when shipped in a protective shipper, so don't let the postal outlet hassle you about what you're shipping.

Also as long as you notify the seller that they may receive more than 1 envelope, I don't see what they could complain about? Maybe add it into your item description too?

reallynicestamps · ‎11-18-2021

Registered only tracks in Canada.

USPS Registered only works in the USA

Royal Mail Registered only works in the United Kingdom.

Basically the Registered service is domestic only and has been for nearly a decade.

And eBay has not accepted Registration as Tracking for longer than that.

And by the time you pay $5.57 for a 500gr domestic letter and add the $9.75 Registration fee, you might as well send it Expedited.

ricarmic · ‎11-18-2021

Just a wee addition to @reallynicestamps information, registered letters are usually not tracked by Canada Post outside Canada, however they usually are tracked by the destination post office tracking system.

So for example if one sends a registered letter to Malaysia, it normally only shows on Canada post as leaving the country, and usually no more updates (although sometimes delivered) but the important part is it normally shows updates all the way to delivery in Malaysia if viewed via the Malaysian post office tracking.

Registered is theoretically not accepted by eBay, however it would be interesting to see what happened if a case was opened and the tracking shows delivery via the destination post office tracking system. Thoretically this would be very rare to happen because a "scammer" buyer will see that there is tracking that shows delivery (unless they're a sophisticated scammer they probably won't know that that type of tracking doesnt count) so it would only ever be used in a real "lost item" situation.

marnotom! · ‎11-18-2021

@rocketscollectibles wrote:

In some way i understand but when you think about it it's not uncommon, even when you order on amazon an order free shipping over $35, most of the time you do not receive items all together even if it was only one order and all shipped by amazon. Items are splitted and it shows that you will receive in multiple packages, never been problematic

Maybe not problematic, but I find it as annoying as Hades, even though I understand why it's done this way. Just because Amazon does it that way doesn't mean you have to. Some people shop on eBay because sellers try to be different from Amazon.

intimewithmusic · ‎11-18-2021

@rocketscollectibles wrote:
Just a dilem i have when i have a combined order of multiple items that are $60-75+ cause i'm basically charging and shipping with lettermail. I don't wanna take the risk to have an INR claim over a certain price, but at the same time taking a $15-20 lost for tracking is as well very high in percentage and does not makes sense too. I can't charge buyers for tracking cause i would not be competitive and would not sell those items

Just wondering what do you think about splitting the order and ships lettermail in two packages?
Do you think it could be badly perceived by a buyer?

Do you think it could make sense as risk/reward and that false INR cases are less likely to happen if a buyer receive two packages, might not take a shot to claim two in a row

Also i guess that if i drop two packages with same address at the same time in a mail box, in theory they should reach destination at the same time together?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My take on shipping a $70 package 1 month (25 business days) from Christmas.

Ship immediatley, in one package, professionally packaged, with tracking.

IT (est 1969)

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-19-2021

Just because Amazon does it that way doesn't mean you have to

Amazon was just used as an exemple that it's not something as uncommon we could think

Ship immediatley, in one package, professionally packaged, with tracking

I don't see how it is less professional to be honest, we are probably millions of sellers shipping untracked with lettermail. Most top sellers in my category also do not ship tracked under $100, that's an amount standard. And like the amazon exemple, it's not less professional. Another exemple came to my mind i ordered a desk on wayfair a few months ago, also received pieces splitted in two packages

Actually even if most of you seems to disagree, more i think about it and more that ships in two packages $50/$50 makes sense to me. Same cost that would be the shipping of it lettermail oversize in one package, and risk of lost/false claim is reduced by 50%. Just need to message the buyer then if one is delayed they don't think you forgot half the order

My take on shipping a $70 package 1 month (25 business days) from Christmas.

That's something stressing me to be honest, i noticed a tendacy recently from buyers to message me like they are a bit scared. I guess it's xmas presents. I guess it's the time of the year negative feedbacks are the highest? I feel like if i ship a card and buyer is not happy with the condition not knowing what they're buying (grading), it's gonna be a straight negative

teenytrinkets · ‎11-19-2021

Track it, with insurance. Especially with a nervous buyer. I'm scared to ship anything over $20 lettermail right now.

I have two impending INRs right now. I've had soooo many this year. Lettermail has had its worst year, in my experience.

intimewithmusic · ‎11-19-2021

A few weeks ago you were complaining,

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/No-one-request-total-for-combined-shipping/td-p/468810

Correct me if I'm wrong.

-You worked on your business since February.

-You have a customer who paid $70 who ordered a combined shipment. "Combining" means combining into one package. Now you're complaining about that.

-You earned a good but extremely vulnerable feedback score [35*/100%].

-To save $8-$9 profit your plan is to provide risky cheap delivery during the time the post office becomes overwhelmed due to the pandemic and the season.

Unlike the good folks telling you to lick stamps and dish out multiple envelopes who have 100s or 1000s of high feedback ratings protecting them from defects you're willing to risk 10 months of hard work to save $9 bucks by not offering one of your best customers good service?

If your customer responded to a listing offering "I combine shipments" and you don't do that they have every right to file for an INAD.

Speechless

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-19-2021

Your message sounds like bad faith

I'm not coming in the community to complain or barely, i'm here to discuss

I do not state anywhere that i do combine shipment actually, i do state that i offer shipping discounts. I also state in my listings that packaging may differ from one order to another. I do not go against anything i'm offering here

Also shipping was charge $3.00 and it was not stated anywhere that i'm shipping tracked. As said too under 100$ lettermail is the standard from top sellers in my category so it's not like i'm doing something wrong and different by shipping under 100$ lettermail. This is not a 8$ difference too, tracked shipping was like 18$ cause buyer was west and im east, this is a 15$ difference, which is something like a 20% lost, unless i'm going for registered mail

You are talking like lettermail is a cheap, risky and bad service but this is literally standard on eBay and in my category. I did not charged for tracking it's not about giving a good service if we talk about tracking in this thread, it's more about selling protection

pjcdn2005 · ‎11-19-2021

I think that when the previous poster mentioned $9 they may have been referring to the cost of a registered letter.

I've run into similar situations and it really is a judgement call on how you handle this sale. I don't think that it is terrible to send out items in two packages though I don't know if that really is a solution. If the person is dishonest it is just as easy to open 2 item not received claims.

intimewithmusic · ‎11-19-2021

Hi. Thank you for your input.

My question is

Is it worth risking a business with a hard earned & honourable fb ratio of 35/100% to save a couple of bucks?

@pjcdn2005 "I don't think that it is terrible to send out items in two packages"

But the point is not that simple. If you were in his shoes in 2021 with his fb ratio would you ship out a $70 purchase a month from Christmas in a pandemic in two separate untracked uninsured envelopes?

You have an enviable fb rating of 3709/100%. You would need 148 defects to drop you to 96% which would cripple your credibility. That's not going to happen due to your great standing and the low risk you enjoy.

If one of those letters goes missing his rating will drop to 97% which would definately impact his competiveness. If both of them go missing and the customer files an INR or, if the customer claims INAD due to a breach of shipment by not combining shipping (Ebay defines combined shipments as "shipping in one package") his rating will become 94% which would take a miracle or change of account to bounce back from. He didn't indicate if he offered combined shipping in any of the combined order listings. If he didn't he may be able to dodge an INAD.

If both those two envelopes do not get delivered, they get delivered to a wrong address, they get lost in junk mail, if theyre delivered outside the time window, if a dog eats them (not being properly packaged in the way a $70 item should be) or for any reason the buyer chooses including buyer's remorse the customer can simply say the shipping promise wasn't fulfilled. That may be averted if agreed upon using the Ebay messaging I don't know.

Reality

Unfortuantely @rocketscollectibles did not offer the weight, dimensions nor the destination. I cannot do a direct comparison. I can only assume the weight exceeded lettermail.

Here are some examples of insured tracked packet CP shipments (including the Ebay discount) I sent this week originating from Kelowna;

100 grams to Delleware = $12.41 (same up to 250 grams)

75 Grams to Washington = $12.41 (same up to 250 grams)

190 grams to Pennsylvania = $14.20 (same up to 250 grams)

Up to 200 grams sent to Bakersfield CA via lettermail costs $5.57 for each x 2 = $11.14.

Up to 200 grams sent to Toronto costs $3.35 each letter x 2 = $6.70

In this case with his 35/100% score the difference to deliver customer service above and beyond the call of duty and to protect his hard earned growing business is just a few dollars. The consequences of supporting anything else can be tragic.

Business is full of risks. I had my 30 year share in B & M. I thought an online store would be easier. It's actually more complicated because of constant change, technology gliches, increasingly educated desperate criminals and the flood of new competition. If you are willing to endure all of that...

Is it worth gambling away a business with a hard earned honourable fb ratio of 35/100% just to save $8 or $10 dollars?

So far it's working out for @rocketscollectibles . One way or another we all gain from offering opinions in the forum. I'm open to anyone explaining how this isn't risky business based on his position and not yours.

IT

dinomitesales · ‎11-20-2021

Just a couple clarifications:

You have an enviable fb rating of 3709/100%. You would need 148 defects to drop you to 96% which would cripple your credibility. That's not going to happen due to your great standing and the low risk you enjoy.

Feedback percentage is only calculated on the feedback left in the last twelve months. So if using @pjcdn2005 as an example, they would only need two negative feedbacks to drop them to 96% (which is basically the same as @rocketscollectibles, mind you since they have 44 feedback in the past 12 months to pjcdn2005s 49).

Here are some examples of insured tracked packet CP shipments (including the Ebay discount) I sent this week originating from Kelowna;
100 grams to Delleware = $12.41 (same up to 250 grams)
75 Grams to Washington = $12.41 (same up to 250 grams)
190 grams to Pennsylvania = $14.20 (same up to 250 grams)

The first two are actually only up to 100 g, not 250 g.

intimewithmusic · ‎11-20-2021

Hi @dinomitesales Thank you for your clarification. Admittedly I'm a bit confused about the rotation or expiry dates of defects. That said the risk is very real as you point out.

We can split hairs or "rearrange the deck chairs on the "Titanic" but which advice to answer the "dilema " as termed by @rocketscollectiblesis best? The poster you mentioned likely earned enough defect "vunlerability" many years ago. I might feel the same way if I had the 3709 today. It's safe to say (no pun intended) the online selling world changed. Risks have risen exponentially and this time last year the mail service couldn't keep up with demand and items were lost.

With respect to the savings via lettermail as I said no specifics were granted including dimensions, destination or content of the letters so I was giving actual cost examples to compare. It's safe to say shipping 2 domestic letters up to 200 grams could cost $6.70 if they contauined paper and 2 USA bound same sames could cost $11.14 if they contained paper.

Let's assume the shipment total is 400 grams which would explain splitting the lettermail. The cost from Kelowna to California is $17.33 in 1 package tracked and insured if sent via tracked packet USA. Domestically, the cost from Kelowna to Edmonton is $15.84 tracked and insured via Exp Parcel. Making adjustments for distance is splitting hairs.

Rocket has said "taking a $15-20 lost for tracking is as well very high in percentage and does not makes sense". Where is that loss? He still has to pay for 2 envelopes. The difference in the cost of the plan you and some others are defending can only be about

$9.14 cents domestically and $6.70 to the USA. I think this is what some folks are supporting.

People who not part of the conversation and starting businesses will read this. They will face the same trouble competing with shipping costs. There's a lot to be gained from this discussion. I faced this decision 4 years ago. I gave lettermail a lot of thought. I thought of opening a 2nd store specifically for lettermail items. I decided against it because most of the items I sell don't fit the postal guidelines and there was talk of Canada Post cracking down on letter content so I forego a lot of sales.

Unless my math is wrong the savings afforded using lettermail in this case, for this size of order, at this time of year, considering it's potential risk to a new business no, I would not recommend it. What I recommend to @rocketscollectibles and the other readers instead is;

*Revisit the actual (not the perceived cost) of using tracked insured shipping. IE: 200 grams via lettermail to most USA residents = $5.57. 200 grams via insured TracketPacket = $14.20. Diff = $8.63 Build it in.
Consider how much effort is spent selling items with a value of less than $10 versus the net profit after fees.
Consider selling low value items (under $10) in lots large enough to warrant Exp Parcel or Tr Packet IE: $20 -30 lots and up. Be sure to fit them into weight categories. For example I finished a new system to sell HTF 8 track tapes in lots of 3. They finish in the package at under 500 grams. The average value is $8 ea or $24.99 ($19.99USD) in a lot of 3. Shipping is under $20 ($16USD). People looking for HTF will pay that.
Increase your average selling price. Many collectible magazines I have sell for $40 - $80 each. They're as easy to sell as a $5 magazine. They are HTF so no one complains about an $18 shipping cost. I don't worry about lost items.

No disrespect to anyone's business model. for many reasons lettermail is a tender topic. I think a great portion of Ebay Canada was founded on lettermail. Based on what I sell and my past this is my own point of view and suggestions to make more money with less risk.

Thank you to any who have added your own input!

ITWM

rocketscollectibles · ‎11-20-2021

For my personal exemple this is just under 30g and shipped 0.92$. Thread turned a bit over complicated. Overall one package cost me between $1.50 and $3.00 depending of the number of items and how i package, considering it can reach oversized $1.94. Tracking for my specific buyer if i bought a label was something like $18. I don't think i have a single situtation where the difference between lettermail and tracking is under a $10+ loss

But i did not wanted to split to save cost, it's the same for me, two packages is just 2x $1.50. The goal of this thread was not really about if i should use tracking but more about if you guys tought it was acceptable to ship lettermail two packages for one order. And also as anti-scam purposes (cause to me someone could claim one INR, but less likely both, to avoid to look suspicious)

I shipped another one today in two packages, i'm really thinking about always doing that. Under $100 lettermail, over $50 two packages ($50/$50), over $100 tracking. Now i wonder if i even should contact buyers to let them know or it's acutally useless. They are shipped at the same time, they should arrive together. Or at worst 1-2 days delayed and still in my shipping time. Lettermail is 2-4 business days. Unless there's a problem, and i never had one yet

ricarmic · ‎11-20-2021

If it was me, and I was shipping in two packages, I would advise the buyer, however I always advise the buyer anyway even when it is one package, I think it saves a lot of extra questions and premature INR conversations.