Does Ebay International Shipping use Canada Post to deliver items shipped from US?

[fergua3]

I live in the GTA if that makes a difference, which it might....

[theoldestfart]

I have home delivery aka apartment. So it looks like UPS -> depot-> DHL-> USPS -> Canada Post -> me. Will have to wait for the delivery of the item to confirm that Canada Post is indeed the last mile carrier. 

The USPS flat rate box rate was a bit more expensive than the total shipping cost eIS charged me and I would not have 5 handoffs. The only advantage I see in eIS is for the seller. The free returns are anything but free for Canucks and eIS shipments: 

"you will not be eligible for, and you will not receive a refund of any Duties, Taxes or International Shipping Fees that you paid to eBay and you will be responsible for shipping the EIS Item to the address provided by eBay"

[fergua3]

that policy is true of all international returns, not just EIS.  Returns are considered a form of buyer remorse, and thus shipping costs are not refunded (and hence customs fees and taxes as well).   The seller is only required to refund the item cost on a return.  And that makes sense....no reason the seller should lose all kinds of money just because a buyer changed their mind and decided they don't want the item they bought.  Some sellers, usually the big box sellers, offer free returns regardless of reason and will reimburse all monies the buyer paid, but that's their choice, it's not a requirement.

On a SNAD however it's a totally different story.  The buyer gets a full refund and many times gets to keep the item too.

[fergua3]

so, all of a sudden my EIS package is moving like lightning through the system.   Purchased on May 6, nothing happened until today....it was handed to USPS by the seller, arrived later at the shipping hub and was assigned a DHL ecommerce solutions tracking number.   As far as i can tell, DHL will hand off to Canada Post at the border, meaning CP will take it  through Customs, so hopefully no big brokerage fees.  So far seems pretty good.

[theoldestfart]

In my case, the seller created a label on May 2 and sent me the UPS tracking #. They dropped it off at UPS where it sat in the UPS depot for 2 days. At last check, it appears that USPS MAY have the item. This is the 3rd carrier to handle the shipment with hopefully Canada Post being the last mile carrier. I may get the item next week, 3 weeks after I purchased it and in the same amount of time that it takes for me to get items from AliExpress.

[fergua3]

hm....that's interesting.  UPS was not involved in my shipping at all.  It seems there are many flavours to EIS and as a buyer we won't know what we're getting beforehand.  However, how it gets to the shipping center is irrelevant.  It's how it gets to my door that i care about. .

[marnotom!]

---

@fergua3 wrote:

hm....that's interesting.  UPS was not involved in my shipping at all.  It seems there are many flavours to EIS and as a buyer we won't know what we're getting beforehand.  However, how it gets to the shipping center is irrelevant.  It's how it gets to my door that i care about. .

---

The UPS portion of @theoldestfart's shipment was the leg from the seller's location to the shipping hub.  The shipping method for that leg is up to the seller, so it stands to reason that there are going to be many ways that this can be accomplished.

As you say, how it gets to the shipping hub is pretty much irrelevant, but you can often find out how the seller plans on doing this by changing your shipping location on the listing page to United States ZIP code 60139.  You'll also find out the seller's portion of the eIS charges that way.

[theoldestfart]

I indicated that USPS MAY have the package.

eBay tracking still shows the DHL eCommerce Solutions tracking number that begins with EE and makes no mention of USPS. The last update was May 10th. From this the buyer would assume that DHL still had control of the package.

Using that same EE tracking number on DHL tracking webpage shows a Delivery by USPS Int'l tracking number beginning with LVS. Putting that into USPS tracking webpage shows that the parcel is in USPS with the latest activity being May 11th.

I learnt this the last time I foolishly used eIS and swore at it then and relied on eBay's tracking for current information.  In that case, the package sat in the same spot for over a week. You have to dig for the info because eBay sure the heck is not going to give the info to us, after all, we are ONLY the buyers of the products. The delivery by date is May 25th which is 23 days after I purchased the item. 

I have got items from China in less time for a fraction of the shipping cost. With returns to China being cost prohibitive and with eIS returns "you will not be eligible for, and you will not receive a refund of any Duties, Taxes or International Shipping Fees that you paid to eBay and you will be responsible for shipping the EIS Item to the address provided by eBay."

[marnotom!]

---

@theoldestfart wrote:

eBay tracking still shows the DHL eCommerce Solutions tracking number that begins with EE and makes no mention of USPS. The last update was May 10th. From this the buyer would assume that DHL still had control of the package.

Using that same EE tracking number on DHL tracking webpage shows a Delivery by USPS Int'l tracking number beginning with LVS. Putting that into USPS tracking webpage shows that the parcel is in USPS with the latest activity being May 11th.

---

I mentioned the Parcelsapp website earlier in this thread, but I know it's getting lengthy, so I'll mention it again as a "universal" tracking site that does a good job of pulling together shipments involving multiple carriers.  It often goes into more details about scan events, too.  I'm starting to wonder if the site may be operated by EasyShip as there are design similarities between the two sites, but I haven't had much motivation to investigate this further.

Having said that, I don't know if it's really worth the time and your blood pressure to be monitoring your shipment this closely.  Are you able to at least wait until a couple of days before the first estimated date of delivery to get a sense of who may be doing last mile delivery?

---

@theoldestfart wrote:

I learnt this the last time I foolishly used eIS and swore at it then and relied on eBay's tracking for current information.  In that case, the package sat in the same spot for over a week. You have to dig for the info because eBay sure the heck is not going to give the info to us, after all, we are ONLY the buyers of the products. The delivery by date is May 25th which is 23 days after I purchased the item. 

---

Sorry, this isn't your first item handled by eIS?  Or do you mean the GSP for that other shipment?  There are subtle but real differences on the buyers' end between the two forwarding programs and it's important that we don't confuse things further by using the wrong term.  Anyway, see my previous babblings about Parcelsapp.

---

@theoldestfart wrote:

I have got items from China in less time for a fraction of the shipping cost. With returns to China being cost prohibitive and with eIS returns "you will not be eligible for, and you will not receive a refund of any Duties, Taxes or International Shipping Fees that you paid to eBay and you will be responsible for shipping the EIS Item to the address provided by eBay."

---

China does what China does.  Cheaply.  Not just goods, but shipping, too.  Goods imported from China go through a different port of entry than most items from the United States, and as far as I know, we don't import as much from China as we do the United States, so it stands to reason that fewer items going through a different port of entry are going to get processed more quickly.

@fergua3 already did an excellent job of explaining that the "returns" being referred to here are of the "remorse" variety.  Items being returned for damage or for not being as described would very likely be handled differently.  I seem to recall that the GSP terms and conditions for buyers had a similar condition for returns that we later discovered had nothing to do with how it dealt with NADs.

[pjcdn2005]

Once the package arrives at the depot I would be surprised if it is ever in usps's hands again. 

I haven't heard of any remorse returns with EIS yet but since eBay handles returns not the seller, my guess is that in most cases ebay will simply refund rather than have the item returned so that a proxy could sell it.  It will be interesting to see how it does  work.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Returns Policy EIS

https://pages.ebay.com/internationalshippingprogram/seller/terms/

Returns and refunds

We'll set your international return policy for items shipped with eBay International Shipping, and all eBay International Shipping returns will be returned to eBay. When a buyer opens a return, we'll refund your buyer and you'll keep the sale.

You're protected from neutral or negative feedback, and we'll remove any related defects, including opened cases in service metrics. See eBay International Shipping terms and conditions for more information.

For some INR's with EIS what could be happening is items are arriving at the facility and then being discovered as not permitted causing issues for customers expecting goods. See attached list.

-Lotz

[theoldestfart]

Parcelsapp site ends at the DHL activity on May 10th. Regarding the other shipment that I had to do the same amount of sleuthing was an eIS and definitely not a GSP item. That was because DHL was involved in that shipment as well and the eBay tracking showed no movement with that shipment for a week. That was because USPS had possession of the item and was in the process of bringing it to the US border for handoff to Canada Post. 

I am a broken record but eBay has to more clearly explain the process that is involved with eIS shipments so that buyers understand what the process involves and there could be 4 or more carriers involved, in the case of Canada-bound shipments. Rather than the feel-good presentation that they have on their website for sellers.  Tell the buyers the tracking # that the seller sends you when Item is shipped is not the carrier doing the delivery in Canada. In my case, I saw the UPS tracking # from the seller and I became more frustrated with a purchase I already regretted making.  I never use UPS for cross-border shipments due to their antics.

The bolded text is from the eIS ToS regarding returns. I did not realize that was the policy for eIS returns and that is a reason I will go out of my way to never use eIS again. If the item is broken or misrepresented that is a return as as far as I can see still governed by the bolded text in the eIS ToS. That is NOT "hassle-free returns" as eBay description states for an eIS item.

[theoldestfart]

As of May 12th Canada Post has the item. I discovered this via USPS tracking. eBay tracking for the shipment still shows the last event from DHL  that was 2 days ago. eBay will probably show that the item was delivered to me which I estimate will occur in 3 to 5 business days

[marnotom!]

You're probably not going to like this idea, but I think that a lot of your concerns about eIS could be addressed if Canada joined most of the industrialized world and had digital marketplaces such as eBay charge GST/HST/PST on international sales at Checkout the way they do for sales from Canadian sellers.

Think about it.  Given that there's a lot of merchandise that enters Canada duty-free now, the fact that the taxes have been collected at the point of purchase means that carriers don't have to do this and buyers no longer have to worry about who's handling the item and brokerage or processing charges from that carrier.

It would also mean that the marketplace would be able to add taxes paid to a refund made in the event of a remorse return or a dispute made through the Money-Back Guarantee as the taxes weren't collected by an outside agency.

We have to remember that eIS handles shipments to 200 or so countries and there's going to be regional differences in how shipments get handled by the carriers contracted out to handle them on behalf of EasyShip.  I think it's unreasonable to expect carrier-specific information on listing pages--especially for a country as geographically diverse as Canada--when the shipping costs are calculated by a computer algorithm that only knows so much about the item in the listing, and most of the time doesn't know exactly what the item is.  There are "learn more" links on listing pages where the eIS is listed as the shipping method that take buyers to a set of terms and conditions that are reasonably thorough given that it covers shipments to those 200-odd countries.

If taxes were collected by eBay at the time of sale--and this might happen with eIS regardless of what the feds do or don't do with the taxation of sales of casual/personal imports in the near future--it would likely make things closer to "hassle free" for you.

[marnotom!]

---

@theoldestfart wrote:

As of May 12th Canada Post has the item. I discovered this via USPS tracking. eBay tracking for the shipment still shows the last event from DHL  that was 2 days ago. eBay will probably show that the item was delivered to me which I estimate will occur in 3 to 5 business days

---

Would it made any difference if you found this out the day before the item was delivered?

[fergua3]

If the item is broken or misrepresented that is not a return.   That is a SNAD.....Significantly Not As Described.

A return is when you have changed your mind and don't want the item.  In that case you do not get a refund of shipping costs paid or any Customs fees, you only get a refund of the item price.  And you have to pay to ship the item back.

With a SNAD you get a full refund of everytihing.  You many or may not have to physically return the item, at Ebay's discretion.  If you are required to ship the item back, you will be provided with a shipping label from Ebay at no cost to you.

This is the way all returns and SNADs are handled on Ebay.   And if you don't get this treatment through EIS,  for some  reason, you just go through Paypal or your credit card company, however you paid,  and they will refund you.

[marnotom!]

Hey, @fergua3, you did a great job of distinguishing between a return and a SNAD, but I think you and @theoldestfart also hinted at something else earlier in the thread. If taxes and import-related charges aren’t included at Checkout and are handled by a third party upon delivery, the buyer can’t get them returned in the SNAD/MBG process.

I think the buyer would have to go through the process of filing a form B2G with CBSA, but that would only take care of any taxes (and duty, if applicable) owing, not the brokerage charges. I’ve never had to do this myself, so I’m not certain.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/forms-formulaires/b2g-eng.html

[theoldestfart]

---

@marnotom! wrote:

You're probably not going to like this idea, but I think that a lot of your concerns about eIS could be addressed if Canada joined most of the industrialized world and had digital marketplaces such as eBay charge GST/HST/PST on international sales at Checkout the way they do for sales from Canadian sellers.

Think about it.  Given that there's a lot of merchandise that enters Canada duty-free now, the fact that the taxes have been collected at the point of purchase means that carriers don't have to do this and buyers no longer have to worry about who's handling the item and brokerage or processing charges from that carrier.

It would also mean that the marketplace would be able to add taxes paid to a refund made in the event of a remorse return or a dispute made through the Money-Back Guarantee as the taxes weren't collected by an outside agency.

We have to remember that eIS handles shipments to 200 or so countries and there's going to be regional differences in how shipments get handled by the carriers contracted out to handle them on behalf of EasyShip.  I think it's unreasonable to expect carrier-specific information on listing pages--especially for a country as geographically diverse as Canada--when the shipping costs are calculated by a computer algorithm that only knows so much about the item in the listing, and most of the time doesn't know exactly what the item is.  There are "learn more" links on listing pages where the eIS is listed as the shipping method that take buyers to a set of terms and conditions that are reasonably thorough given that it covers shipments to those 200-odd countries.

If taxes were collected by eBay at the time of sale--and this might happen with eIS regardless of what the feds do or don't do with the taxation of sales of casual/personal imports in the near future--it would likely make things closer to "hassle free" for you.

---

From a buyer's point of view if that would happen then eIS is no different than GSP which eBay is getting rid of.

I buy items on eBay that are used for repairing/replacing items for customers. eIS has a clause in its ToS that the items purchased under it are for personal use only.  I only found that out by scanning the ToS. That means shopping on eBay I would have to have a flowchart. What is the chance this item will arrive broken and have to be returned? If so buy in Canada. Is this item for non-personal use? Buy in Canada.

Sorry, but eBay does not allow us buyers the fine filtering of listings to eliminate eIS / GSP items. You have to click on each listing to see how the item is being shipped.

[theoldestfart]

I order parts for fixing items for people.  That is one of the few things I use eBay for these days.  I have to let the customer know how long they will be without the item. If the item does not show up the customer gets **bleep**, rightfully so, and so do I. In this case, the item bought, lost say the 24 days waiting for an item to show up. I want to see if the item is progressing through the multitude of carriers that eBay shipping plans use so that if something comes up I can alert the customer of a possible issue in receiving the item as soon as possible.

[marnotom!]

eBay charging and collecting taxes at Checkout for imports also means that items sent by mail would also see tax charges, so it's not quite a "just like the GSP thing."

Speaking of the GSP, it too was not intended for non-personal imports, but you probably already knew that.  Good to see that you found out about eIS's similar restriction by scanning the T&C.  I hope others take heed of your experience as that's why the T&C are posted and linked to listing pages.

[theoldestfart]

The problem is that the ToS for eIS does not clearly indicate what it means as a return. If a return is what you indicate, then the eIS ToS needs to clearly indicate that in its ToS. Do not rely on the buyer to know there is a difference between a return and a SNAD.