Buyer gets refund while tracking proves it's still in transit.... I'm so disappointed

[705-jvs-den]

Provided valid tracking from Canada Ontario to PA USA buyer 

Buyer received refund via eBay 2 days after filing.

Shipped Dec 18, buyer refunded on January 15... 

Item still in transit......

I have appealed with photos of the receipt with the tracking number and buyers postal code with the date block stating the 18th on it...

Still have heard nothing from eBay even after speaking to them.

Anyone else ever had this happen?

[marnotom!]

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@705-jvs-den wrote:

After a lengthy conversation with eBay the appeal was resent as the agent AGREED the case had merit as the package is still moving slowly.

Btw The buyer never contacted me once to ask anything just jumped on the refund button.

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While it's frustrating to deal with a buyer who doesn't contact you prior to initiating a refund through eBay's Money Back Guarantee process, the buyer was perfectly within their rights to do so.  Looking at the listing for the Sam Bennett trading card, they were given an estimated delivery time of 3-8 business days via Standard Delivery.  They waited 18 business days or almost a calendar month before filing.  A buyer from Pennsylvania who is not accustomed to buying from Canada may not understand the complexities of international shipping, particularly with COVID thrown into the mix.  They may also not understand that registering letter mail slows its passage considerably.

Your buyer got a refund because your item didn't arrive within the stated estimated delivery time.  You're actually quite lucky that your registered shipments are getting online tracking information, because international registered mail isn't always trackable online.  

[teenytrinkets]

This is a big pet peeve of mine: a buyer who initiates a request the day after the maximum shipping estimate without any direct contact. Why? Because it reeks of SCAM.

I had a buyer do just this today for lettermail! She lives in rural Manitoba. I'm in BC. She waited the 10 days. I've had Expedited parcels to rural MB take nearly a month. Xpresspost over a week. This expectation borders on ridiculousness. I agree that ebay should be adjusting shipping timeframes to help curb this.

Question though: How did the OP get a forced refund and defect after only 2 days of the buyer initiating the inquiry? Don't buyers have to wait a week before they can get Ebay to step in and issue the refund and nail the seller with a defect?

[thomas1234647]

I sent an item from Canada to NH.
The USPS holds it for three weeks!
It’s Christmas and covid . Buyer asks me to inquire, I file a claim. Buyer request a refund, foolishly I give the full refund at the advice of eBay assuring me they support whatever I do though the chat feature. Tracking then shows movement. Buyer doesn’t want the item any more. It hasn’t even arrived. After the refund case is closed buyer agrees to return to sender but requested a return payed shipping label. So I’m out the initial shipping cost and what ever the return to sender cost will be. I will never refund anyone till I receive an item back. And only the purchase price. No returns on your ad should be no returns.

[marnotom!]

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@teenytrinkets wrote:

I agree that ebay should be adjusting shipping timeframes to help curb this.

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eBay's shipping time estimates are based on information provided by the carrier chosen by the seller.  Canada Post may have suspended delivery guarantees, but they haven't changed their delivery standards, and I'd say it's unlikely they will because delivery standards are defined as normally expected timeframes for a mailed item to be in transit.

There have been posts on this board about some mailed items still arriving remarkably quickly.  I don't think eBay could just change delivery time estimates without anything official on which to base these changes.  I'm sure eBay would like to be able to do this--it would cut down all those INR/MBG claims a lot--but its hands are tied here.  All they can do is advise buyers of potential delays and hope that buyers and sellers will be adults.

[reallynicestamps]

@thomas1234647 

I will never refund anyone till I receive an item back.

You have that right, but you may be required by eBay to furnish the return shipping.

And only the purchase price.

The buyer paid for the Thing and for Delivery of the Thing.

You paid Canada Post (or UPS or whoever) to deliver it.

It is not the buyer's fault that your sub-contractor failed to complete the job you paid him to do.

You may have the option to be refunded by the carrier. Some services include insurance, some allow insurance to be added. 

No returns on your ad should be no returns.

Our contract with eBay allows No Returns.

You can refuse to accept the Thing back.

But our contract does not allow No Refunds.

A No Returns policy can mean that the buyer gets refunded and keeps the Thing.

Having the Thing returned, even if you pay for the return shipping, means you can either learn that the buyer was right and the Thing was not as described OR you have it back in fine shape and can resell it to recoup at least part of your investment.

Most Disputes are disagreements between adults. Even Buyer Remorse disputes where the buyer wanted a scarlet sweater and got a carmine one.

[zee-chan-jpn-books]

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@ricarmic wrote:

The hard part for us all, is not to forget the other 99.5% of successful transactions.

Likewise for almost everything in life. I had two horrible "customers" this week. One shouted a racial comment at me, the other called me an idiot (both of these comments happened as I had to follow strict protocols so I couldn't help them with their issues). 

But I also had a really nice customer who asked for my name, and then she took the time to tell my supervisor that I was very helpful to her and she appreciated it. Said supervisor was also very nice about it and sent me an e-mail so that I have a written record of the customer's kind feedback 

[sylviebee]

File a claim with CPO and you should receive a full refund if it's not delivered soon.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@sylviebee wrote:

File a claim with CPO and you should receive a full refund if it's not delivered soon.

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I had 3 parcels go out in late Nov/Early Dec....Before CP's cutoffs from Calgary. Customers paid for Xpresspost. 1 to Saskatoon (11 Days), 1 to Vancouver(11 Days) and last to Texas (19 Days) (it sat in Vancouver for 15 days...forwarded to LAX and on to customer a few days later). All were delivered well beyond normal delivery standards. I attempted to process a claim figuring oh what the heck on the Vancouver shipment. Response  message time was less than 6 hours. No luck. You would think if you are paying for a premium service and delivery time was not met they should refund at bare minimum the difference between services. Sadly no. And to make matters worse eBay Canada has not grasped this issue that Canadian sellers are dealing with compared to the other eBay sites.

-Lotz

PS. Canadapost in the majority of cases only pays claims for lost shipments. There can be a major time lag to process. Especially now considering the current state of world delivery affairs. Damaged shipment cases are "rarely" paid out.

[sylviebee]

I just had a claim for an item shipped via Tracked Packet to Italy which was over a month in transit and they paid out quickly so I thought they were cutting us some slack.  

[reallynicestamps]

@jcd931 

Jan. 3 :

The buyer didn't receive the item

Buyer wants the item......

Jan. 14 :

The buyer has opened a case

Comments

Hello, This item has still not arrived. I can only conclude that it is lost in transit at this point....

Keep in mind there was already an open Dispute for Not Received from the 3rd.

The buyer was being patient.

On the 14th she escalated it to a Claim.

I don't think eBay does this on its own-- it has to be escalated by the buyer.

The short period between the Claim and the refund could (I'm guessing here) be related to the 11 days between the Dispute and the Claim.

Even though the tracking shows movement.

[lady.stark]

This is -almost- exactly what happened to me. I was fortunate enough though, the buyer did not open an INR case. He patiently waited even if he was somewhat rude. But the package I sent Dec 5 arrived Jan 14. The one you sent will probably arrive within the next few days.

[motomike_canada]

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@705-jvs-den wrote:

Provided valid tracking from Canada Ontario to PA USA buyer 

Buyer received refund via eBay 2 days after filing.

Shipped Dec 18, buyer refunded on January 15... 

Item still in transit......

I have appealed with photos of the receipt with the tracking number and buyers postal code with the date block stating the 18th on it...

Still have heard nothing from eBay even after speaking to them.

Anyone else ever had this happen?

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You need to wait til it's Delivered, then call Merchant Support.

 Per the bulletin Dec 19th (linked below) :

We will automatically remove any defects, and associated negative or neutral feedback for “item not received” cases closed without seller resolution when:

Tracking was uploaded and has a physical scan from the carrier before the case was opened.

A delivery scan shows the item was delivered after the case was closed.

In addition, these cases will not impact your service metrics rating.
We continue to monitor and evaluate carrier transit time and delays and we’ll make adjustments where necessary.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Seller-Protections-extended-for-shipping-delays-and-Nort...

[motomike_canada]

I replied but somehow it got deleted or something? 

  Anyways

eBay put out a bulletin Dec 19th stating the following (link below) : 

We will automatically remove any defects, and associated negative or neutral feedback for “item not received” cases closed without seller resolution when: 

• Tracking was uploaded and has a physical scan from the carrier before the case was opened.
• A delivery scan shows the item was delivered after the case was closed. 
• In addition, these cases will not impact your service metrics rating.   

So -- Wait until the item is Delivered, then call Merchant Support immediately. It should be straigth forward to get your funds back. 

It should also be noted that if you voluntarily refund the buyer, this will not apply.  A gamble? Maybe... I've had to use it once already and have another one pending... just waiting for the package to arrive. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Seller-Protections-extended-for-shipping-delays-and-Nort...

[strange*highways]

The feedback you left is in violation of ebay rules.

[marnotom!]

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@motomike_canada wrote:

eBay put out a bulletin Dec 19th stating the following (link below) : 

We will automatically remove any defects, and associated negative or neutral feedback for “item not received” cases closed without seller resolution when: 

• Tracking was uploaded and has a physical scan from the carrier before the case was opened.
• A delivery scan shows the item was delivered after the case was closed. 
• In addition, these cases will not impact your service metrics rating.   

So -- Wait until the item is Delivered, then call Merchant Support immediately. It should be straigth forward to get your funds back. 

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I don't see anything in that statement that suggests that eBay will issue courtesy credits to sellers as the result of sellers issuing a refund for an item that's delivered after the refund was issued. 

Also that announcement pertains to .com sales, not sales on the eBay Canada site.

[motomike_canada]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@motomike_canada wrote:

eBay put out a bulletin Dec 19th stating the following (link below) : 

We will automatically remove any defects, and associated negative or neutral feedback for “item not received” cases closed without seller resolution when: 

• Tracking was uploaded and has a physical scan from the carrier before the case was opened.
• A delivery scan shows the item was delivered after the case was closed. 
• In addition, these cases will not impact your service metrics rating.   

So -- Wait until the item is Delivered, then call Merchant Support immediately. It should be straigth forward to get your funds back. 

---

I don't see anything in that statement that suggests that eBay will issue courtesy credits to sellers as the result of sellers issuing a refund for an item that's delivered after the refund was issued. 

Also that announcement pertains to .com sales, not sales on the eBay Canada site.

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Well, I've done it. 

[teenytrinkets]

Yeah, in addition to the fact that you won't attract other buyers by calling them thieves.

I always leave positive feedback with the ship date when i ship out. I think it establishes positive ground with the buyer, and provides a visual timeframe for shipping. The scammers get the FOLLOW-UP feedback that stands out like a sore thumb. Which always reads: "Refund Issued Jan 18/21. Sorry your item hasn't arrived yet." This documents the refund to warn other sellers, and provides public proof if the buyer is a repeat scammer. All the while, you look like a polite seller! And you have to be...if you want to keep selling...

[femmefan1946]

@705-jvs-den 

The only ones who read feedback are your future customers.

Who just back buttoned away and found another, less volatile seller.

And you spelled "thief" wrong.

[jcd931]

Nice end to my story. Item arrived yesterday and buyer requested information from me so he could pay. Money back in our account late last night.

[thomas1234647]

In The end the buyer offered to pay the initial cost not the shipping though. Because eBay closed the request once the refund was issued they couldn’t even issue a return label at my cost to retrieve it. So I cut my losses and took the offered money because I couldn’t get a return label to the buyer. I’m angry at ebays advice. When I spoke to a manager they said they would speak to the buyer with hopes and I quote” the angles are on my side” with regards to a resolution. Im frustrated at eBays unknowledgeable staff I spoke to. I got duped because of it with no help from eBay.