Canada Post Possible Stike

[stanley613]

What happens now that orders are in the mail with a possible expected delivery date of September 30 and early October, what happens if not received there is no way of knowing whether these items will be received after strike is over.  Will eBay delay delivery date?

[cumos55]

Many Employer-Employee relationships have changed with an agreement never to go on strike.  If there is a problem, that problem is addressed quickly.  

Manitoba teachers is one such group.....  and the relationship between the teachers and employer  has never been better.

This agreement  not to ever go on strike is better than any strike could ever be......

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The main problem between Canada Post and CUPW is not labour relations, but the effect of a strike on Canadians who use Canada Post.  The Canada Post we know today is a lot different than it was 10, 20 and 30 years ago. Labor relation should be addressed on a daily, monthly , yearly basis and not just when a contract ends...

Back to work legislation will pass into law....  Canada Post  and CUPW must continue their discussions to address important issues....

Where there is a will ...  there is a way.

[momcqueen]

“Labor relation should be addressed on a daily, monthly , yearly basis and not just when a contract ends...”

Yes. I agree. The dialogue should be continuous and back-and-forth, not top-down speeches. Workplace safety committees are mandatory, aren’t they? Of course, someone self-employed as the single employee of their own business isn’t striking a committee unless it’s a committee outside the workplace with other self-employed people in their trade.

My regret in this is for the postal workers who are now forced back on Monday when they could have willingly gone back with a $1000 signing bonus to spend at Christmas had their union brass not led them down the garden path.

[marnotom!]

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@cumos55 wrote:

Many Employer-Employee relationships have changed with an agreement never to go on strike.  If there is a problem, that problem is addressed quickly.  

Manitoba teachers is one such group.....  and the relationship between the teachers and employer  has never been better.

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I would say "some" of these relationships have changed, not many.  Those with a no-strike agreement tend to be regarded as "essential services".

The deal with the Manitoba teachers is that contract negotiations go to binding arbitration.  The employer submits its best offer and the union submits its best offer and an arbitrator decides which one makes the most sense.  There's no back and forth.  There are no over the top opening gambits from either party which make the union appear to be greedy and the employer appear to be trying to take everything away from the employees.  It's nothing like haggling with a car dealer.  The arbitrator's ruling is the "final answer".

My understanding is that the experience with the Manitoba Teachers' Union is that the arbitrator has generally come down on the side of the union.  I suspect that if the latest from CUPW and Canada Post were to go to binding arbitration, the union's proposals for a cost of living pay increase, safety considerations to be contractually entrenched and gender and pay equity would not be viewed as unreasonable by an arbitrator.  This is not what Canada Post wants.  Better to go the route of riling the union and getting the workers legislated back to work.

[ricarmic]

The part that confuses me about the safety stuff is that legitimately injured people are expensive to a company because the disability payments or insurance for same are expensive.

The union appears to be putting forward a relatively simple, at least in concept solution to improve that.

It seems odd to me that it is unacceptable to the company, however we're probably just getting the very high/simplified level and I expect there is a lot more to it than we're being shown by either side.

[marnotom!]

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@momcqueen wrote:

My regret in this is for the postal workers who are now forced back on Monday when they could have willingly gone back with a $1000 signing bonus to spend at Christmas had their union brass not led them down the garden path.

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Signing bonuses are often dangled in front of unions when the employer knows that its offer leaves a lot of unaddressed issues on the backburner.  They're a PR scheme.  I'm convinced that this offer would have left a significant group of CUPW employees hanging out to dry.

Having said that, I'm trying to find out why CUPW and the Letter Carriers' Union merged in the late 80s/early 90s.  It strikes me that it would be better to have separate negotiations with inside and outside workers.  Were the outside workers lacking the clout to deal effectively with CPC?

Or is the merger associated with Canada Post becoming a Crown Corporation, making it subject to the Canadian Labour Code when it wasn't as Royal Mail Canada?

[ypdc_dennis]

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@marnotom! wrote:
... I'm trying to find out why CUPW and the Letter Carriers' Union merged in the late 80s/early 90s.

... is the merger associated with Canada Post becoming a Crown Corporation, ...

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The post office before becoming a corporation had employees from 42 or 43 different unions. There has been some consolidation since then.

...

According to wikipedia the Letter Carriers Union of Canada surrendered to CUPW in 1989 after members voted on which union would represent them.

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[momcqueen]

“I'm convinced that this offer would have left a significant group of CUPW employees hanging out to dry.”

How is the well-being of a small group of union members so much more important than a large group of more vulnerable old or isolated or self-employed people? And their families. Or their own co-workers? I must have missed your explaination of that part.

[esclyons]

This signing bonus was just to return to work, minus the rotating strikes, while negotiations continued.. Taking this 1000$ had nothing to do with accepting or refusing a contract..

[amcdc79]

Silly me for thinking that the big issues the union had with Canada Post had been taken care of prior to this round of negotiations. I honestly thought the two sides could handle the small stuff once the pension and rural/urban issues had already been settled.

I totally forgot that in 2011 when they were sent back to work, the Postal workers received less than what CPC had offered them. In fact, they had to sign with major concessions, that included a $4 an hour reduction in pay, and complete elimination of bankable sick days. The Company I worked for, actually realized they were more efficient when they allowed us to bank sick days, as they found that no one was calling in sick, just to use up their accrued days.

I remember the effect the lockout had on me in 2011, and the fact that I had to take down my listings in 2016 just in case. I am like many others, a small seller, who cannot afford to use other ways and means, to send my items to the buyers. This has been brutal, I really feel sorry for those who depend on their sales, to pay the bills.

In the past, I took down my listings whenever there was a hint of a stoppage, this time I kept ebay up and running, actually raised a few prices to try to slow down sales, which, so far has worked.

There has been posturing from both sides, and I believe each of them are guilty of being bone headed, and not caring about the little guy(us) at all. Time to do the right thing, with some long term thinking in the works. We are at the beginning of the online business structure, with Canada falling behind, because of small minds at both the union and the company.  To both sides, Please take your head out of the sand, and understand that volume can cure many ills.

[marnotom!]

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@momcqueen wrote:

How is the well-being of a small group of union members so much more important than a large group of more vulnerable old or isolated or self-employed people? And their families. Or their own co-workers? I must have missed your explaination of that part.

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It's not "so much more important".

It's just as important.

[momcqueen]

It’s not ‘just as’ important when the group asking for more *already* has more than the people from whom things have been taken away.

[marnotom!]

Everybody is entitled to safety and equity in treatment in equal measure.  I don't know where this "more" factors into the equation.

[momcqueen]

What are you talking about, exactly?

I’m talking about the effect the postal strike has had on my well-being and increased financial insecurity as a small online seller on eBay.

How does the ongoing postal strike effect you again?

[marnotom!]

Since when did CUPW represent you or me?

[momcqueen]

CUPW doesn’t represent me, do they represent you?

It has been well-established that CUPW or — more to the point— their leadership created a problem (rotating strikes) with the impact being a severely reduced capacity of my ability to feed my family at the one time of year I am supposed to count on making money.

Where is your skin in this game that you are prepared to comment on the issue day and night?

I’m sleepless with stress and worry and the general discomfort in which I live.

What’s your motivation to continue debating this with me? I think it’s time for you to share that. What does any of this matter to you?

[momcqueen]

I’m at a loss to understand that. Please do enlighten us as to the reason this matters to you. I’m not able to empathize with your point-of-view if I’m not seeing the world from that standpoint.

[marnotom!]

Funny.  I have a vague recollection of this line of questioning from some users in response to some of my points about the GSP.  In this case, however, I'm being informed that this questioning is in the cause of "empathiz[ing] with my point-of-view".  I guess this beats the tired old retort that I must be an eBay staff member.

Yes, I'm a union member and my wife is, as well, but we're neither Canada Post employees nor are we related to or friends of any.  I'm also someone who tries to see at least two sides to every story.  Yes, of course, the side I lean toward will likely be biased by my background, but I think I can be objective enough if need be.

As has been stated somewhere else on this board, things like bargaining objectives and strike strategy are worked out by workers who represent the membership.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were some "fact-finding missions" of sorts to find out the impact rotating strikes would have on the general public, small business, and so forth.  If part of these "missions" was reading discussion boards like this one, think of what impact this thread, in its earliest postings, would have had on a casual reader.   There are posts from people suspending their sales, posts from people not terribly bothered by the prospect of rotating strikes, and posts from users who consider CUPW to be run by idiots.  However, there weren't many--if any--posts from anybody stating that rotating strikes would have a catastrophic to their livelihood or day-to-day lives.  (It's late and I'm not prepared to scroll back right now.)  The general, overall feel from this thread was one polite, shallow yawn.

And that's likely what the takeaway was for CUPW and its "fact finding" when the union devised its strike strategy.

Where did things go wrong?  Perhaps CUPW should have started smaller and ramped things  up more gradually.  Perhaps Canada Post negotiators somehow enraged CUPW negotiators and things got heated far more quickly than anticipated.  Also consider that it wasn't the union that issued the warning against incoming international mail, or warned Canadians not to put anything in the mail.   The art of public relations being what it is, CUPW probably would have made statements to this effect if they felt the general public was at risk here, but it didn't.  This is what's leading me to think that Canada Post management had a hand in manufacturing this crisis and CUPW was unable to turn on a dime to counteract this.

When my wife and I were more active sellers working out of Victoria, the counter clerks at the post office we frequented bent over backwards to work with us and help us help them.  We had a great relationship.  They knew we were their bread and butter, even though we could also tell that they were putting up with a lot of crud from their higher-ups that had an impact on their morale.  I don't think small businesses were forgotten or used as collateral damage by CUPW, at least intentionally.  Something went awry, and Canada Post management needs to answer some questions.  If CUPW gets legislated back to work and it's able to launch a court challenge to that legislation, I'm thinking that it's going to try its darndest to get Canada Post's tactics out in the open as part of its case.  Canada Post will likely do something similar against the union.

[momcqueen]

Thank you.

[lachnrd]

I have no sympathy for CUPW. Negotiations are supposed to be just that give and take I’ve yet to see them give anything other than demand repeatedly. Canada Post however has at least moved on some issues.

Until they actually decide to negotiate they can all pound sand as far as I’m concerned.

[cumos55]

Manitoba teachers have chosen never to go on strike again.

If they did go on strike all children would stay at home....  Manitoba  law states that children 12 and under must be supervised in such a situation.  If both parents are working, one must stay at home....  and if the strike last for one month or longer....   that parent loses salary... and may even lose a job.. maybe.

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Before the internet became a reality, the Postal Union would go on strike  and they recognized that Old Age Security  (OAS) and Canada Pension Plan (CPP) cheques must be delivered  The Postal Union continued to deliver these cheques during a strike.

The internet has created a new retail world.  Many small sellers do very well selling on the internet....   Things have changed  to a point where parcels are a major part of Canada Post...

The Union claims that a rotating strike, and with no overtime,   does  allow for a continued handling and delivery of all mail including parcels.....     The flow of parcels through a postal system  has continued to increase with each year..  There is a backlog with this strike in 2018.... 

The Union argues there is no backlog...  Maybe they should sit down and determine how many parcels are handled each day,  and then how many parcels should be flowing through the postal system.     The backlog is a reality,  because there is no one parking area for the current  backlog of trailers.

People who sell online have been affected significantly by this strike.  The Union chooses not to recognize this has happened.  If CUPW had to compensate online sellers for the effect of the strike on online sales, how much would that total be. 

Three groups, CUPW, Canada Post and the Government must recognize  that online sellers have been influenced dramatically by this strike... lower sales,  anxiety  and frustration

There must never be another postal strike, and if there is another strike,   online sellers must be compensated for a loss in sales.... and perhaps also for the anxiety and frustration created with having to deal with the strike....