Expedited Lite - Billed Twice for the same eBay Label

[intimewithmusic]

Hi all,

Has anyone had this occur? If so how one could be reimbursed as the chat bot isn't helpful?

On June 24 I rec'd an order for one ball cap. I shipped it via Expedited Lite.  See email receipt. 

I was billed $8.75 for the label and on June 26 the money ($8.75) came out of my Adyen balance. 

On June 27  eBay took $9.80 out of Adyen for the same ball cap order with the same order number and the same tracking number. No 2nd label was printed, label price is different and eBay never sent a 2nd label receipt or any surcharge transaction. 

Not sure if it's relevant but apparently the package size was changed on printing by eBay to 5 x 5 x5 cm. The box was 21 x 16 x 12cms. The total weight was under 200 grams.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[intimewithmusic]

Thanks.

For 1st quarter I tried the eBay tissue paper and thought it was a good use of the coupon as well. I don't use a lot (mostly for vintage clothing)  but it's nice to have it new and in a dispensable box when needed.

[flipistics]

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@intimewithmusic wrote:

Thanks.

For 1st quarter I tried the eBay tissue paper and thought it was a good use of the coupon as well. I don't use a lot (mostly for vintage clothing)  but it's nice to have it new and in a dispensable box when needed.

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If you need cheap void fill for other things, Staples sells newsprint rolls that are 24" by 720 feet for $15. It lasts forever and works really well. I've probably reduced my bubble wrap usage by 75%.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@flipistics 

eBay modifying inaccurately what the seller  has entered will never be considered a good thing. If there is a valid reason behind it, it needs to be properly explained. Even worse the fact that it has been gong on since day 1 with this service and it goes back even farther with the customs part and country of origin.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@flipistics wrote:

Interestingly, if you log into the USA site and go to labels you can see the expedited lite dimensions and weight that you entered.

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@flipistics 

When you review those measurements on dot com the order gets switched to width x length x height. Recent shipment I sent was 44 long x 30 wide x 10 high. It became 30 x 44 x 10 (sides being referred to are not noted). Revised dim weight shows on label but not on that dot com screen. Hopefully this is not messing with girth when it is being applied by eBay when it actually could be?

CP:

The calculation for girth using CP is — Girth is (height x 2) + (width x 2). 

Even USPS expresses measurements as length x height x width

Did someone "assume/transpose" something incorrectly when the eBay Label tool was originally created causing these discrepancies? From my visits to the dot com board concerns regarding charged postage pop up from time to time. Have they been addressed? Who knows?

-Lotz

[treasurechest0114]

I may have found the solution and I'm working with ebay on a fix.

Like you and many others I've had the same issue but did not notice it until recently.  Unfortunately in looking back i've had 17 packages impacted for a loss of over 170 dollars.  All my packages sent were under the limits -  14X14X15 (2,960 Cubic CM) and for sure under 200 grams.   I've spent countless hours with Ebay trying to figure things out with all my service requests being ignored.  Until its resolved I've stopped using the service but refused to give up my quest to get this one resolved for everyone.   What was exceedingly frustrating was no ones ability to explain to me the reason for the overcharge.  I wont waste time by sharing all my pain!

Yesterday I finally spoke to a supervisor who took the time to review my overcharges and fully explained the reasons behind it.  Canada post charges based on the greater of two factors - Volumetric Weight or the actual weight of the package.   My weight was fine - all around 140 to 180 grams.   My volumetric weight was not  - 2,960/5000 = .592 KG.    Fair enough - Canada post is normally in their rights to levy the charge. 

What this means is only packages 999 Cubic CM would qualify thereby making this service useless for most boxed items  - 999/5000=.1998 Grams.   So boxes under 10X10X10 or equivalent dimensions would work or oversized mail envelopes as the long as the height was reasonable.  Unfortunately anything I use envelopes for is over the weight limit of 200 grams.   

The good news is the supervisor and me are working on a fix.  I pointed out that under the FAQ for expedited lite on the Ebay.ca website, fourth from the bottom, ebay states that Cubing charges do not apply.   As long as the actual package dimensions are within the specifications outlined!  

The supervisor is escalating this to the management team and I'm going to write an essay to Ebay's head office.  Together we will have hopefully solved this.   It will most likely take some time so there no point in talking to ebay and definetly no reason to call Canada post.  Hopefully if solved Ebay will provide an update but if not, or my theory is wrong, I will post again.   I posted this so everyone can understand, save time and just wait it out. 

Im not sure why no one at Ebay has noticed this but it was the same when I pointed out the error when expedited Lite first came out.  If you recall they allowed the service no matter what the package size.   With working with ebay I had them fix it so it would only offer the service with the correct dimensions and weight in place.   Hopefully I can get the same results in this case.

If anyone sees a hole in my logic please make a comment.  

Note for anyone wondering if "cubing charges" is the same as volumetric weight here is a comment from DHL on the net:

Dimensional weight, also known as volumetric weight, DIM weight, or cubed weight, is a pricing technique that shipping carriers use to calculate how a package will fit into their freight cargo

*From ebay FAQ*

Is this service subject to cubing charges?

As long as the actual package dimensions are within the specifications outlined, cubing charges do not apply. 

[flipistics]

I don't think that's the issue. I've sent out lots of expedited lite packages that were well over 200g cubic with no problems (only a couple have been upcharged incorrectly).  There might be an issue if it's over 500g cubic and under 200g actual, not sure.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@flipistics wrote:

I don't think that's the issue. I've sent out lots of expedited lite packages that were well over 200g cubic with no problems (only a couple have been upcharged incorrectly).  There might be an issue if it's over 500g cubic and under 200g actual, not sure.

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@flipistics 

@treasurechest0114 

devon@ebay 

In theory if the item is over the allowable limits seller would get an error message and then system would not let them proceed. That's what happens if you try to put through a US tracked at 2.01 + kg. You have to choose USA Expedited or USA Xpresspost. When it happens after and there is a revised charge it should come with an explanation. Example: When measurements are entered in correctly. With an error message seller could "try" to repackage to meet guidelines, if possible or have to absorb the cost difference. and will also let them know...when or if there is a next time.

If they are audited re-weighs they still should deserve an explanation.

[teenytrinkets]

I think you're right about there being a 500g volumetric weight limit! I've been overcharged/ charged twice for 25x16x7cm boxes several times. 

But since then I've been keeping my packages 2500 cubic cm or less, and I haven't been overcharged again. Bingo!

Either that or there's definitely an issue with their calculation. Keep 'em SMALL!

[treasurechest0114]

I agree with your comments and what makes this even more interesting is just like the US tracked example you provided, the safeguards do work.  If the seller exceeds the limitations the eBay label the system will promptly remove the Expedited lite option. 

In regards to the audited re-weights an improvement in the system would be great.  You are right,  we deserve an explanation.   As a seller I had no idea Canada post was charging me as it looked like a normal label purchase.  This is why I didnt notice until I had a really slow selling period.  Saw I got charged for a label and I had not sold anything.    

To summarize, the reason why I think I'm onto something here:

1) All my packages follow eBay's guidelines of under 3,200 Cubic CM and under 199 grams.  All accepted by the label system.  I take pictures of each item as I pack as well as taking pictures of the scale(and yes after taping and labeling 🙂 ) .  In addition I had the post office weigh on their scale so it would reflect the actual weight on my receipt.  It matched my scale. 

2) eBay confirmed my packages were charged due to Volumetric weight after doing a detailed dive into my issues

3) eBay sepecifically states - "As long as the actual package dimensions are within the specifications outlined, cubing charges do not apply."

Anyways, looking forward to the result of the investigation and will post whether my theory is wrong or correct.  All I can tell you is Expedited lite is broken.  

[treasurechest0114]

Although I mentioned 17 packages were charged I should add that many others got through.   I was thinking the same thing as you, perhaps there is a trick with the dimensions.    I decided to use a 16X12X12 package or 2,304 cubic CM.   Unfortunately for me I got hit with a fee again.

eBay needs to provide clarification as they have said:

"As long as the actual package dimensions are within the specifications outlined, cubing charges do not apply."   No one at eBay seems to have been aware of this.   I suspect because most representatives are in the US.  

If I could only have eBay's postage account number I could call Canada post direct and find out for sure.  I still think Canada post has a system error due to this being a one off agreement with eBay.  Remember Expedited lite does not exist in this format anywhere else.

[teenytrinkets]

I've had great success with packages 21x14x6cm. But that's way under the allowable size. Who knows what their calculation is doing if you're still getting hit at 460g volumetric weight! Maybe it's 450g? Who knows!

[treasurechest0114]

It's great to hear and I appreciate you sharing the sizing solution.  From the sounds of it it looks like you found that sweet spot where Canada post lets it go.   Unfortunately it's too small of a box for me and many others.  

I just hope this can be fixed so all Canadian eBay sellers can use it for what it was designed to do.  It's great that eBay negotiated this special shipping service but a shame to let it go to waste over a technical error.

In an ideal world I'd like to see the weight up to 500 grams even with a larger fee but now I'm dreaming!  

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@teenytrinkets 

@intimewithmusic 

@treasurechest0114 

@dinomitesales 

@flipistics 

In the neverending theme of when cubing does or doesn't apply I spotted this in the CP disclaimers regarding the subject. Note middle section. Unsure how often this happens. I do know lately, while in line I have spotted folks mailing stuff in those plastic baggies. This would definitely cause items to be get scanned later down the line and have original measurements suddenly magically morph into something different. 

Where we charge the base price on the basis of our audit,
price adjustments will appear on your next invoice or a
subsequent invoice.
Note: Package shape and dimensions may change during
transit, which can affect the package’s dimensions and,
therefore, the volumetric equivalent of its actual weight.
Canada Post reserves the right to adjust the price and
surcharges, as the case may be, based on the altered
dimensions.
If you do not complete and submit all the documents for a
shipment, as required, or if the documents are inaccurate or
incomplete for any reason, the items of the shipment may,
at the discretion of Canada Post

Just too bad the CP disclaimer on how these are additionally billed does not match how eBay does in practice.

-Lotz

[treasurechest0114]

Hey Lotz,

I have some great news.....all my hard work has paid off.  We have a fix!

It turns out my analysis of the expedited lite problem mentioned in my post was accurate as well as my assumptions.

It took a long while but I was really pleased that eBay took my concerns seriously and did an investigation.

In short eBay determined that Canada Post was in fact incorrectly cubing expedited lite labels.  They are working with the shipper to correct the issue as well as reviewing policies as it relates to label disputes.

As stated on the eBay expedited web page, as long as it meets the below requirements it qualifies.  No cubing so it is NOT subject subject to volumetric weight.

Expedited Lite is available for any domestic sales that meet the following criteria: 

• Weighs no more than 200 grams

• No one dimension exceeds 41 cm (16.1”)

• Maximum volume (L x W x H) of up to 3,220 cubic centimetres

I'm not overly familiar as you are with eBay community so wondering how we can mark this link as solved?

[jtg204]

How does one despute the extra charge?

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I agree that there should be a reason given as to why a person is charged more later on.

But more specific than the example Lotz has posted. The reason 'additional handling' could be a number of things so even that is not specific as it should be.

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@intimewithmusic 

@dinomitesales 

@pjcdn2005 

@flipistics 

Unsure if there are other variations the seller receives in the USA for revised/amended invoices. Only example I have been able to retrieve so far. Will see if there are others floating about. Because the Labels page states that the seller purchased expedited lite that "should" be reflected on the physical printed label. This would avoid any confusion. Same goes for any amendments. Seller types 23 x 15 x 2 cms that is what "should" print on the label. If you bought a label directly at the post office and the service didn't apply they would tell you then and there. Not come running after you and tell you, you owe more. Now if only Canadian sellers could get an actual detailed invoice when they purchase a label...how things work in the normal world, that shows measurements, weight/dim weight when applicable, taxes, fuel and discount where applicable. That would be Shangrila...and phone numbers. Did we want to include missing optional services to that list?

-Lotz

Was able to track down a different variation. Note all the exceptions are explained including what was charged orginally and the corrected amount. Makes disputing a bit easier when necessary. 

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Re: Expedited Lite Labels

Now seeing Expedited Lite on label created page + eBay Summary page. Looks like eBay is in the process is correcting some of our many observations. 

[flipistics]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I agree that there should be a reason given as to why a person is charged more later on.

But more specific than the example Lotz has posted. The reason 'additional handling' could be a number of things so even that is not specific as it should be.

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@intimewithmusic 

@dinomitesales 

@pjcdn2005 

@flipistics 

Unsure if there are other variations the seller receives in the USA for revised/amended invoices. Only example I have been able to retrieve so far. Will see if there are others floating about. Because the Labels page states that the seller purchased expedited lite that "should" be reflected on the physical printed label. This would avoid any confusion. Same goes for any amendments. Seller types 23 x 15 x 2 cms that is what "should" print on the label. If you bought a label directly at the post office and the service didn't apply they would tell you then and there. Not come running after you and tell you, you owe more. Now if only Canadian sellers could get an actual detailed invoice when they purchase a label...how things work in the normal world, that shows measurements, weight/dim weight when applicable, taxes, fuel and discount where applicable. That would be Shangrila...and phone numbers. Did we want to include missing optional services to that list?

-Lotz

Was able to track down a different variation. Note all the exceptions are explained including what was charged orginally and the corrected amount. Makes disputing a bit easier when necessary. 

---

Re: Expedited Lite Labels

Now seeing Expedited Lite on label created page + eBay Summary page. Looks like eBay is in the process is correcting some of our many observations. 

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Wait, did they charge you an extra $30 because you underestimated the actual weight by 0.02 lbs, even though the billable weight didn't change? 🙄

[treasurechest0114]

Right now unfortunately you have to call in and create a service request.  With the issue just resolved eBay is  evaluating the impact to the problem.  I'm not sure at this point what they will do - proactive, reactive etc.

At this point in time you can try and call in to dispute the label fee.  Let them know that eBay head office is aware that expedited labels were being charged Volumetric weight incorrectly by Canada post.  Have them submit a ticket. 

Make sure to follow up as I often find label disputes end up going into the mystery bin with no updates or actions.  Based on my experience they are working to create a more effective dispute system. That may take some time.

Please let us know how you make out.  

[daisydaisy999]

Hi there, I started another post with the same issue and found yours - glad to see you sorted this out with them! - could you please clarify who you called to dispute it? I called Canada Post who said eBay is supposed to dispute it but eBay says I have to call Canada Post directly so I am in an endless cycle of "not our problem"... 

[treasurechest0114]

Sigh, it always disappoints me to hear eBay is still telling people this.   Trust me I've been through the same thing.   If you purchased your label through eBay then eBay has to dispute it for you as its under their account.  Canada post is correct, they cannot speak to you about this as you did not purchase the label.  End of story. 

When you call eBay let them know that this is a known issue and head office has been in touch with Canada Post to resolve.  Expedited lite labels are not subject to volumetric/cubing as long as it meets the 3 requirements.  They should assign you an SR number and tell you someone will get back to you within 48 hours.    
Don't beleive them.   Follow up with them after 3 or 4 days and find out nothing has been done.   Ask to speak to a supervisor and don't let them talk you out of it.  The supervisors may be aware of it at this point but if you are getting no where you can always ask them to look into my account for the solution.  Tell them you dont want any info but the solution is there.   Worth a shot, LOL.

I have used expedited lite five times now in boxes that are just under the cubic limit and so far, cross my fingers, I have not been billed for cubing.  It is my understanding Canada post should have resolved this now but anyone who has been charged in the last week please let me know.