Packages being returned, no longer able to go letter mail

[triber]

Canada Post is now returning craft booklets and paper sewing patterns that are sent letter mail saying that have to go package rate. For sellers selling low cost craft items, having to charge or pay for package rate now makes them far too expensive. Has anyone else had them returned? I am going to phone CP and see if I can see what is going on.

[vintagenorth]

Within Canada doesn't matter; you can send anything as lettermail within Canada as long as the weight and size is correct for lettermail.

[mrdutch1001]

Yes, I am well aware of that...my response was to @ run_geek_run

who stated "I've had no issues with lettermail as long as it's sent within Canada."

[richardcm]

I am a very small seller with about 30 items on two other eBay IDs.

I went through my listings and most had a $10-25 price with free shipping to Canada and USA. I do not ship International (except USA).

About 10 items priced less than $5 I added a $3 shipping cost to USA or no longer ship to USA.

I use discount postage stamps bought at about 60% face value so my added cost is $1.80 which helps pay for Small Packet USA.

But I will probably use Letterpost USA until I get a return. I drop the packages in corner boxes nearby.

[sakic92710]

Canada Post is just being ignorant.  A sports card can be shipped as long as it is not in a protective toploader.  How are we supposed to protect it??  I will only sell expensive cards that require tracking.  I removed several listings & will remove many more so I am not stuck paying asinine postal fees for mailing a $4.00 patch; etc.  This also hurts because the buyer might be Canadian & there would be no worries with mail them.  They did make an error & returned 1000s of pieces of mail that should have gone through.  My friend mailed a postcard & it was returned.  Never should have happened & they admitted it to him.  The ridiculous thing is CDs & DVDs can be mailed in letter mail but a thin piece of plastic to protect cards can't??!  The MOST ignorant thing is when they cancel the stamps so you have to pay twice+ to mail it again!!  Just let us add the extra postage.  They are going to get a lot less business from me.

[mrdutch1001]

It will be business as usual for me as I refuse to delete listings just because the postal rates may have to be increased on some items...it's either raise the shipping costs or roll some of the costs into the item price as well as into the shipping costs...it's the buyer's choice so I shall let the buyer decide...

I have listings on other venues so it's a wider audience that I can draw from and again, I shall let the buyers decide...

[marnotom!]

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@sakic92710 wrote:The ridiculous thing is CDs & DVDs can be mailed in letter mail but a thin piece of plastic to protect cards can't??! 

CDs, DVDs, and sports cards--with or without plastic protectors--can all be mailed domestically as letter mail.

CDs, DVDs, and sports cards, with--or without plastic protectors--are considered "merchandise" if mailed internationally (including the US) and cannot be mailed as international letter post.  The Canada Post website actually singles out CDs and DVDs as unacceptable:

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/support/articles/letter-post/unacceptable-items.page

[boxnsox101]

For lettermail to USA, how are they enforcing this? In other words, by what means are they determining what a letter contains to then reject it? Is it being scanned, x-rayed, rolled, etc?

I wanted to start shipping something like a small, flat, metal keychain (costs me $2 and sells for $5). It weighs 0.022kg and is about 0.027kg with a bubble mailer, meaning I can send it by standard lettermail (<0.03kg weight maximum) for $1.30 to USA.

I was quite happy with this because I was just now about to start selling these items. But of course with my luck I've now just found this thread.

There is no way I can sell a $5 item with an $8 (Untracked Small Packet USA) or $13 (Tracked Packet USA) shipping cost, especially when competing with Amazon and domestic USA sellers.

Even if some orders are sent back, it would still be more profitable to take advantage of the "grey area" than to make virtually no sales. 

Metal has me worried because it can be scanned, but if posters are getting sent back, maybe they are bending them rather than scanning? Or is it that the envelopes appearing "business-oriented" (kraft bubble mailer) are more scrutinized compared to something more appropriate for paper (polymailer or conventional letter envelope)?

[triber]

This is my question also. Packages with paper booklets, paper sewing patterns etc. are being returned. I am sure that Xray wouldn't show anything. I often mail these items to friends in the US, so they should be able to be sent lettermail.

[wildrose.auction.and.consignment]

Yes. Having same problem.  This will likely cost 25 - 35% of total sales. Modifying listings right now - good bye US customers.  They can't lock us down but they'll end us all eventually.

[recped]

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@wildrose.auction.and.consignment wrote:

Yes. Having same problem.  This will likely cost 25 - 35% of total sales. Modifying listings right now - good bye US customers.  They can't lock us down but they'll end us all eventually.

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If you have reasonable volume to the US, ship in bulk to either ChitChats in Edmonton or directly to the US and have them handed over to USPS. It won't be as cheap as what you have been using but it would be much cheaper than using Small Packet.

[dinomitesales]

Got two more  back in my mailbox today 😔

One sent out on Jan. 31. Another sent out on Feb. 9.

I definitely sent out a few between that time (and before, and after), so no rhyme or reason as to what's being returned. All the items I've had returned thus far have been small video game cartridges. I'm in Winnipeg.

[g1v2d3]

I have been receiving mail back for a couple weeks now. My items (Sports Cards) are delivered in a "000" Bubble envelope - return envelope states a "Customs form must be filled out and sent small packet". This of coarse increases the cost by 4x to mail. I called Canada Post and asked why all of a sudden the change in delivery requirements. They stated that they didn`t understand why this was happening because the items meet Lettermail requirements. They said that it was customs making the decision and sending it back. There seems to be some disconnect for lettermail requirements and nobody has the answer.

I don`t have a answer for you but Canada Post nor Customs have one either. We will probably have to now charge the increased cost to the buyer for our products. The problem with this is many items will not be competitive and will not sell.

Gerald

g1v2d3

[reallynicestamps]

They stated that they didn`t understand why this was happening because the items meet Lettermail requirements. They said that it was customs making the decision and sending it back.

If it is "customs" then the decision is being made by US Customs not CBSA who basically deal with incoming not outgoing.

Which would explain the disconnect.

Two different countries, two different standards.

But you'd think US Customs would not care about letter/packet, but only about the missing customs form which allows them to assess and collect duty.

[reallynicestamps]

There is no way I can sell a $5 item with an $8 (Untracked Small Packet USA) or $13 (Tracked Packet USA) shipping cost, especially when competing with Amazon and domestic USA sellers.

There's a fair chance that it is the bubble mailer that is the giveaway.

There is no reason for anyone to use a bubblemailer to ship documents, and as explained above, LetterMail to the USA is supposed to be documents only.

Do you think you would find a market in the USA if it sold for ($5+$8 =  ) $13 with Free Shipping?

Never underestimate the appeal of "free" shipping. Or "free" anything.

Is it special enough?

I've paid more than that for a bag charm thingy that hangs off a purse (Dooney& Burke - "designer" bags but not particularly expensive- in the $200-$500 range).  So you never can tell.

[triber]

I phoned Canada Post yesterday, very unhelpful. I was asked how I knew it was CP returning the package, I exlained that it had a Canada  Post return label on it. I asked her how CP knew what was in the package and she said there is no way they know. Asking then how they can say it doesn't meet lettermail standards, she kept insisting that I was mailing it in a bigger size than lettermail allowed and too thick to go through the slot. I told her that in over 23 years of selling on eBay, I knew exactly what the limits were and I have a Canada Post mail board. She kept asking for the tracking number, really!!!!!  I am enquiry about lettermail being returned.

She said she couldn't look up the amount that was allowed in the package because CP is undergoing a renovation. I hope everyone affected will phone Canada Post, the more enquiries they get should be helpful. My rep. said she would make a ticket to let them know my problem, but I wouldn't get a reply because it had no tracking!

I am usually not bothered about receiving feedback, but these days I wish buyers would let me know that the package has arrived so I know it's not on the way back.

[vintagenorth]

I just got an envelope returned from Feb 8th. Does anyone know if we have to pay the entire Small Pkt Air rate or can we just pay the difference between the amount originally paid and the new rate? What have other sellers been doing?

[33nhl]

I to called Canada Post and was told although they had lacked of informing that the rule that has existed for about 20+ years and was not strickly enforced, now though time has come to be stopped and enforced, so everything other then just plain paper has to be sent as Small Packet and customs form filled online otherwise will be returned to sender.

Would not give specifics but new sorting machines are been put in place that do much more then just sort packages and they have there ways now to detect but some packages could still slip through as regular mail but not like old days. i have received 2 packages back they were though thin packages and after those 2 had sent 5 more to the USA but they were OVER SIZED im hoping that those went through maybe only thin packages are getting flagged but i could not get word from person i spoke on phone if its just the thin packages.  In a facebook group one mentioned that he places a sticker on the bubble mailers Please dont bend or fold and he has not received anything back , but it does take about 20 days for a package to come back to sender if its flagged for what ever reason it may be.  Maybe when low end items sales completly drop maybe Ebay might get involved or Ebay knew of what was coming and no wonder they rasing selling fees to offset any loss on small items sales thus they will recover fees on higher end ticket items.  

[triber]

You have to pay the whole amount, I asked our post mistress and she said we have to do a new small packet label for the full amount. I did have one returned with stamps that were not stamped so I could re-use them.

[brettjet38]

This has been in the "pipeline" for the past few years, anything other than letters or documents will have to be shipped to the USA via "parcel post" and soon every single package "tracked"...

...you know that "barcode" on small packets, it is a test for the new system.

The Universal Postal Union site and recent meeting spell out all the details...

I have never used letter mail to ship anything to the US since I started selling on eBay back in 2001. I have buyers who purchase a single bag of buttons at a couple of $$ and pay small packet USA shipping, if a buyer really wants an item they will pay for the shipping and the taxes.

But as I said in a previous post about this exact thing...

...the days of shipping items using "letter mail" are coming to a close.

[recped]

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@brettjet38 wrote:

This has been in the "pipeline" for the past few years

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Just adding on some details.

The restrictions on "goods" came into effect in 2005, the current wording in the Canada Post Guide is UNCHANGED.

What has changed is enforcement, this is due to both pressure from the UPU and pressure from destination countries. The reason is to remove ALL potentially dutiable items from the Lettermail stream (when crossing a border). Domestically there are no restrictions by Canada Post or the UPU and of course there are no foreign countries involved.

The ONLY thing that has changed since 2005 is the level of enforcement, the rules themselves are exactly as they have been for the past 17 years.